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Episode 14 of Morning Maker Show: From Tears to Tools

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    Morning Maker Show


This week there's a lot of entrepreneurial chaos in the air, but Dan and Sandra dive right into the depths of it! From tearful revelations to unexpected product launches, they navigate the unpredictable world of solo entrepreneurship, unexpected product launches & the emotional rollercoaster called marketing. Let's go!

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Dan: Good morning, Sandra. How are you this fine morning?

I mean I'm brilliant, I'm excellent, I have Some tears in my eyes, but I'm not sure if it's like happiness or sad. Um,

is it, uh, how do you feel inside? Let's do a short therapy.

Sandra: Well, I have to tell you, honestly, this has been one of the toughest weeks in my life.

And I was in Spain. It's the sun. It's, it's terrible. It's the happiness. I'm so happy I'm back to Finland.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. I agree. I agree. You don't appreciate the happiness if you don't go through depression. Right? Oh my

Sandra: God.

Dan: uh,

Sandra, what have you done to me?

Can I ask,

Sandra: first of all, I have multiple issues.

Then I, I need to, I need to call, talk with you. Yeah, me too.

Dan: Yeah. So, okay. You go first. Well, I, I don't

Sandra: quite understand this idea of, uh, you waiting for me to jump on a plane, fly for four hours and then me finding out that you are on product hunt and then you launch a new product. Can you explain this to us more?

Dan: By the way, I'm on product hunt. I know. Sorry for not telling you. Uh, you found out now, so that's good. Um, I'm doing, I'm doing tools, so. One of the strategies with Shipixen is to show some of the capabilities, but as free tools, so people get a taste of it and then maybe they, they want to try the product.

And this came actually from the morning maker show when we needed to do the sponsor pricing, right? And That was kind of annoying. I mean, it takes time to do those, those pricing things. And then we changed it immediately. We changed it five times. And then I, I built this because it was just a lot faster and that's how it became a tool.

And now I launched it on Product Hunt. I, I just did it. I prepared one day in advance this time. So last time I didn't prepare, it went, I think to my expectations, it, it went very well, this one's going even better, uh, and I prepared it a bit more. So the lesson is you cannot just put something on product hunt.

It's probably not going to get very far, but if you prepare a little bit yeah. Something's

Sandra: going to happen. So which place are you

Dan: now? I think second place. And that's like above my expectations because again. It's not like a, it's, it's a small product, but it's not a completely new thing and it's a, it's a tool.

So second place is fantastic. I think for that and first place, I don't think I have a chance at that. Um, they are some sort of animation app, which looks pretty cool and it's, it's a big product with the community and everything. So good, good for them.

Sandra: Yeah, I'll, I'll link the, I will link the, you know, the product and launch in the comments, but it's just becoming funny to me and you need to stop doing this because I cannot land and find Dan that you launched.

Dan: You know, I can't promise, but I'll try my best. You're brilliant.

Sandra: You are brilliant. It's so easy to love you.

Dan: So my, my problem. I hope we do some updates today. My problem is you've, you've completely destroyed my week because you don't laugh. You told me, Dan, you need to add posthog and you need to track all that juicy, whatever funnels and flows and thousands of events.

And this is my life now. I'm doing funnels. I'm doing analysis. I'm doing, you know, all sorts of. In depth, uh, whatever you, you call this thing dashboards, it's called marketing. Yeah, well, oh, wait, did you just trick me into marketing?

Sandra: Yes, I knew guys. So, uh, I knew that the only way to bring a tech guy into marketing is to give him analytic view of the things or how it works.

Um, and he's in. He sold his soul.

Dan: Do you want to know the funniest thing? What's the funniest? Are you ready? So, ten minutes before the show, when I tried to desperately call you, you know what happened? posthog actually sponsored the show.

Are you joking with me? I am, I am 100 percent for you. This happened.

Sandra: Oh my God, I want to cry.

Dan: So, first of

Sandra: all, I have to tell, oh

Dan: my God, I want to cry. Isn't that cool? So, but the thing is, we've been advertising for without the sponsorship because you even sent the thank you email to posthog because you liked it so much, right?

Wait, I'm crying.

Okay, I'll give you a moment. First

Sandra: of all, I'm the biggest fan of Posthog. I've been talking about them for some time. Anytime someone suggests it. Um, and this week, this week, I said to Dan that he needs to connect his shit to Posthog because it's just brilliant. It's a way of how to introduce yourself to marketing and kind of experience the flow.

Um, and see what, which things work, which things don't work. And this is kind of like dream coming

Dan: true.

Oh my God. Yeah. So there you go. Take the Please take the screenshot. Okay, I'll, I'll, but I don't wanna leak their email. Anyway, congrats on that. Actually, I, I wanted to, to talk about it regardless, because it is pretty cool. It is overwhelming too. So the only way I could use it. Is because you told me how so if someone wants to try out Posthog for their own products, please ask us or actually.

Sandra: It's the brilliant thing. It's how tell me like you connected it. Um, like, was it hard for you to connect and jump into all the. No, yeah,

Dan: no, it's it's easy to set up. The only thing is they do auto capture of events. So you get everything like. If you have a reader that highlights text while they read the page, and some people do, then you get all of those.

Or if people rage click, they even have an event, you saw that, for rage clicking. Did you see? You get that. So, It's a lot of stuff and then you need to make some sense out of it, but you showed me those funnels and you know what I could analyze, for example, you can analyze your conversion from different sources and make a few dashboards and that's already pretty cool.

And you do see. What, what referrals work best.

Sandra: Yeah. Like the Posthog was the key for me. Like the first, or like the first value immediate that I saw that influenced the product was the putting Posthog on the onboarding. And it was so important, like for me and realizing where we are failing in our onboarding process.

I mean, postdoc is brilliant. Oh my God. Yes.

Dan: Yeah, I, I have a lot to do custom event wise and onboarding wise, and I have a very difficult challenge to be able to see a flow between the website and the app, and I don't know how to solve that if it's possible, but I have to track two separate things. So I'm still learning, but I'll, I'll keep talking about it.

It's, I've already learned. Very important lessons and, uh, trying to, to adjust some of the flows for that. Do you think you can use this to change copy and to see?

Sandra: Absolutely. Absolutely. And to answer your question, it's totally possible. It's also extremely important to connect these two things like the, landing page itself with the product, because you can filter.

That as well. You can follow the whole behavior from the user coming from the landing page all the way through the product itself Mm hmm. So it's it's amazing. Yeah Yeah, we can definitely go into like, we shouldn't, uh,

Dan: this. Yeah, yeah, okay. And this is not even the sponsorship, this is what I'm talking about.

But honestly, Posthog or not, I think, so we're seeing these courses about ads, about, um, you know, SEO, maybe it's time for you to make a course. about this sort of, how, how do you call this? Is it, I mean, it's not okay. Marketing is a lot of things, but this specifically, is it just analytics or is it, how'd you call it?

Sandra: I mean, it's data analytics, yes, but. The, the, the, the core of it, it's understanding how your channels are working and are they working? Because we always talk, I think during the previous shows, we talked about how important is to have that landing page and understand who you are talking to. But in the same time, it's important to understand how these people are reacting to the landing page.

And how they are reacting to the product itself. And this is where data comes into the story. And I said multiple times, you know, in the tweets and in, in, in, you know, our newsletter that, um, having this data and breaking it down. Is important to understanding your own product and your own audience that you are targeting.

And then there is that that's where the channels are forming. And are these channels working and is your message through these channels working to these people and etc. And yeah, how would

Dan: you call this

Sandra: course? Um, let's do marketing with Sandra.

Dan: Do you have the pre order link? I'm ready.

Sandra: No, not yet. But I, I did more like multiple posts based on data analytics and why it's important and how to do it. And I did posthog into, into it because I jumped on posthog and I fell in love.

Dan: Well, I'm just putting it out there. I think you should do a course.

If, if someone else is thinking the same, please let us know in the comments. Hello everyone. Thank you for joining us. You've just missed the longest intro ever of the show. But the truth is things move fast and I just didn't, I'm real time learning about Sandra stuff. She's learning about mine. So yeah, launched on product hunt.

Sandra, did you know? Oh my

Sandra: God. Yeah, this is the true indie hacking making thing. It's like everything happening real time, moving

Dan: fast. All real time, all fast. Yeah.

Sandra: Oh, you know how to make me happy. Shit. Beep.

Dan: The beep should come. Okay. We'll fix that in post. All right. Let's do some updates from the wonderful building public community.

Would you like to take the first one?

Sandra: Yes. Uh, Yifan Gogh,

hey, Hashtag building public. What's the best tool for cold email outreach? Oh, there's multiple platforms you can use to get the emails you want and then shoot thousands, thousands emails. Do I, did I ever done that? No. Do I suggest it? Depending of the, depending of the size and the, the, the, depending of the size and depending of the, the, where are you with the product?


Dan: it's.

There's a lot of cool options. In the comments, I think the common ones are instantly in the list. Yeah, uh, I have a side topic if you want to go into it. Yeah, so I saw a YouTube video by Stefan Wirth, Wirth, uh, but it's German. Stefan, everyone knows Stefan. And he actually raised an interesting point that when you do this cold mail outreach, Hm.

You shouldn't use your primary domain for the, the email because you could actually get, you know, some sort of spam. If, if you do a lot of them, at least you can be marked as spam. And then if you use obviously the same domain for logging in or resetting password or whatever, they will also end up in spam, right?

Yeah. You might actually do an oopsie there and have issues later. So you either use a different mail for those or a different domain for those, which could be strange to be honest, or use a different one for the cold outreach. Then maybe you redirect that one to the main one, something like that. So it's tricky.

And there's another point he's using. I think he's using Lemlist to warm up. A domain. Yeah. Have you heard about that? Very good advices then. Yeah, so we had this problem with the Morning Maker Show newsletter, right?

Sandra: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we still kind of have it.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it takes a while before a new domain is unmarked as spam.

And I hear that you need to have people move the message to inbox. That could help. I'm not sure if it can do. It just needs to seem like, yeah.

Sandra: That's why I said it depends on the stage you are. Don't rush into it.

Dan: Yeah, but the lemlist warmup actually don't know how much it costs, but we could try it as well for our use case.

Sandra: Yeah, I think we should. We are kind of growing and doing it really fast.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. So very, very interesting topic. I. I actually did not do cold email outreach at all. It's very scary for me. So you'll probably convince me to do that next week. Let's see how you do that.

Sandra: And then we have LEM list as a sponsor again.

Are you saying that to me?

Dan: Um, it seems to work out like that. You tell me on Monday, what tool to use. I use it throughout the week and then by Friday, they sponsor us.

Sandra: Brilliant. This is the dream of how

Dan: sponsorship should work. Yeah, I agree. Okay. Um, Sebastian Roll, he is a frequent build in public or may actually morning, uh, maker show guest now during many shows, he says, Oh, he's actually the one that quit his job this year and went full time indie. So that's fantastic.

He says that interactive widgets are working for habit kit. You can handle, or he needs to handle some edge cases for multiple completions and highlights. And if the week starts on Sunday, so Oh, this is so beautiful. Yeah, it's, it's really good. I think this is iOS only though, but I'm pretty sure he has an Android app.

I was very surprised. I saw one of his updates where either he had, he definitely had more downloads on Android, but I think also the revenue was bigger from Android from a certain point. And since always. I thought that iOS is where you make the money and Android is something that you do later to, you know, grow your, your app, but iOS is where the money is.

Maybe that's not true anymore. I don't know. Or it depends on the app.

Sandra: Definitely. I mean, I've seen you commenting a lot about it in the past few

Dan: days. Yeah. Did you ever consider making some sort of iOS app for Klu? Would that make sense? Or is it Yeah, definitely. I

Sandra: mean, we've, we've had multiple requests for, for that, but it's just like, it, it, you know, we are pushing now the desktop app and for the companies or the enterprises, we are hunting that.

That makes more sense. So the roadmap is going into that direction. But I guess at some point we will have to also think about that.

Dan: Yeah. All right. Well, I hope you do it just because Klu is awesome and we need more of it.

Sandra: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I'm, I, I, I'm sick of like sitting on the beach and people asking me where to find

Dan: me to trust me to, I'm sick of, you know, starting the show and then seeing you next to the pool with the sunshine and palm trees.


Sandra: being back in dark and twisted Finland, many people actually love that comment, dark and twisted Finland. It's great, it's so much

Dan: more productive. Yeah, totally. Alright, wanna take the next

Sandra: one? Andreas,

um V1 of the AI Assistant is now live on, along with a couple other paid features within the enhanced editor add on.

Currently priced at 7. 49 per month. Not really sure if it's too much or not enough. Curious if people are interested at all. AI Assistant, knowledge based software you will like to use. Streamline information manager with powerful and intuitive knowledge management software. Hey What is

Dan: this? It's good. We came did we come across a similar product a couple weeks ago?

It wasn't this one though, no, no, no, no, this one looks very mature all of these integrations Yeah, so it could work with fathom google Analytics, Crisp, Intercom, Hotspot, Jesus, this is a lot of stuff.

Sandra: Very nice. I read somewhere on Twitter that someone wrote, um, I'm so sick of using AI systems, I can't wait to actually speak with a human.

Dan: Have you seen this extension by, by Sergiu, uh, where you know, you don't do anything. I think it just highlights the AI content on X. Oh, I have

Sandra: not. I need to see

Dan: that. Did you, did you try it? I haven't tried it yet. I've seen it. I was a very busy week. Um, but I wanted to try it because I've seen people being surprised by the amount of AI content on their feet.

So, and I, I think I can tell for the most part, but. You know, it gets better and better so soon it might become, if you have a good prompt, it might become quite difficult to tell if it's AI or not. I'll tell

Sandra: you one small secret. Um, I think at certain points when we were discussing, uh, future of Klu, um, we were also kind of talking about, like, essentially once you have your all data information based on one, um, App, there is ability to kind of learn the patterns of what you're doing, how you're talking, you know, all of these things and, you know, it's not only right now we are seeing these, um, AI generators based on the questions and then forming the reply, but if it's able to kind of like go through your content and learn how you usually reply, um, and communicate, it's going to be a totally different, um, um, idea of reply, if you get what I'm saying.

Dan: Yeah, I do. Yeah. I have one question for you. Do you, do you plan to stay in Finland for long? Yeah, forever. I'm never going out. Okay. Should we, should we come and visit you? Because I heard there's a lot of Northern Lights this year. Is that true? Like, it's a good year. Yes. Come. Can we still see the Northern Lights?

Because I'm getting the ticket. Yes. I've never seen them. Is it? Is it good in person

Sandra: when It's beautiful, it's gorgeous, it's lovely, and we can drink together and build things

Dan: together. You're just saying that to convince me. Yes, now I don't know if it's true or not. I thought we can have a, you know, honest conversation.

Sandra: Oh, yes, Northern Lights is very beautiful. You see there's green on the sky and you get excited and Then we go and then we

Dan: work.

Fine. I'll think about it. I was, I was, like, pretty convinced before, but now you're selling it too hard. Wanna take the next one? Naveen Peris.

Sandra: We are looking to launch Build, Show, and Tell Asia Pacific soon. Hashtag building public. What is it? Build, Show, and Tell is a free semi regular online meetup. Where an intrapreneur showcase their product and participate, provide feedback and ideas on how they could improve market and monetize better, um, build, show and tell is awesome.

We have a hell of a lot of fun, learn a ton and end up meeting a whole bunch of great in the in the printers and always walk, walk out with a ton of new ideas to explore. Unfortunately, this happens very late in the night for anyone in Asia or, or, and we want to see if we can bring. All that goodness, um, at a more convenient time for all of our friends here.


Dan: I didn't know about this. So build, show and tell. Let's see. So it's the, is it, uh, it's a community with Discord?

Sandra: Yeah, it's a community. I think they are doing a lot of calls and helping

Dan: each other. Yeah, I'm just wondering in practical terms, how do you join or you just put your email and then yeah, you get invited.

This is quite cool. Do you think, do you think this is like a version of a prepandemic meetup where you kind of hang out with like minded people and then you find new collaboration opportunities, stuff like that.

Sandra: For sure. I think if it's like done correctly. It can be extremely good for, um, any now they're talking about the entrepreneurs, but anyone who has ideas and want to build things kind of having a support system as well with a limited amount of people.


Dan: I might join, you know, I'm a bit short on time, I mean, during the show and everything.

Yeah, yeah, that takes a bit of, that takes a bit of effort, I have to admit. Um, so I actually would like to, to join more of these, but it's just so many hours in a day. Um, one thing that I realized this week is that I don't have Enough time to do this, this Google ads thing that I wanted to do for a long time.

So I wanted to do it from December. I know if you have the same thing where you kind of have a task that's very important, but you just never get to do it because other tasks get in front of it. So I said enough of that. And I've asked, sir, he isn't, uh, he's, he's listening. I asked him to help me out because I just can't do it.

So. It's actually the first collaboration like this that I do everything I've done so far was, you know, pretty much on my own building things, but I'm very excited about this one and I'm very excited to, you know, keep learning about how ads work and, you know, how, how can you actually make some campaigns that convert well, and if that works for my product at all.


Sandra: yeah, I am. You know, I think always a good idea to be realistic with the things that we have to do. And then, um, if there is possibility to kind of collaborate with someone and take that extra pressure from yourself, especially if you trust the person and someone is really good as her, so he is. Oh, yeah,

Dan: absolutely.

Sandra: I'm fully on board because I've, I've, I've had the similar issues where just, you know, you know, that something is important, but it keeps prolonging because of the different things that you have on the list. Yeah. So that's also a very good time management skill.

Dan: Yeah. I want to add one thing from the comments.

Charlie says we have to do a morning maker show in person when I go to Finland. I've never done that. Oh, right. Well yeah, uh, I actually would love that idea. I think it will be very strange though. Because I'm used to this. We've done, this is the 14th episode. Can you believe it? Oh my god.

Sandra: But how do we even plan to like physically do that? Because then I, you would have to be in the living room and I would have to go in like,

Dan: I don't know, kitchen or something. Oh yeah, technically we cannot be together in any way because I don't know how to do it. Uh, or we, we, we just. We had

Sandra: so many issues in figuring out how to do this online,

Dan: imagine.

Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, speaking about, uh, the previous App Store comment, Dimon says that he's getting more users and revenue from Google Play and not the App Store. And then. His app store optimization is performing better for Google play. That's news to me. I thought it's the other way around. So, but I'm, I'm seeing this.

I'm, I'm starting to believe it. But are, where

Sandra: are your products? Apple

Dan: store. My products. Yeah. Yeah. So I have a mix. I have something on the app store and on Mac, you can also sell outside of the app store. So that's fine with me, but on, on iOS, actually that's news. You can. Since yesterday, I think you, you can, in theory, sell apps also outside of the app store, but it's, it's super new.

It's, they just announced it. So that's going to be interesting to see. You can bypass the, um, 30 percent that we've discussed, but. They've added this thing in the terms that if you have more than 1 million downloads, you need to pay 50 cents per, per download to Apple, even though you, you're not on the app store.

How crazy is that?

Sandra: Brilliant. These people really

Dan: know how to make money. Well, they're very greedy. They're very greedy. Right. I can't be a fan of that, you know. Yeah, why should I pay you if I'm, you know, I'm putting the effort and making a payment system, making updates, support, all of that. And then once I make it, I do 1 million, then I have to pay you anyway.

Yeah, but I'm going to get, yeah, I'm going to get mad with this. So let's just jump to the next one. Brilliant.

Sandra: Um, Sergiu

Is it a crime if you ship without dark mode? I think we have discussed this multiple times. You cannot Ship or allow yourself to ship without the dark mode. I think we are and I I would I don't even ask for your opinion on this one

Dan: Please don't ask me for my By the way,

Sandra: I have changed My Twitter or X from dark mode to light mode and I fell in love on the on the phone It's so good.

Dan: You're a light mode by default user, aren't you?

Sandra: No, I was a dark mode on Twitter. My, um, desktop is that I'm so used to it, but I'm not on the phone. And now I'm a different person.

It's all the sun and happiness. Annoying.

Dan: Yeah. Um, I have to say something about dark mode though, because it really matters what product you're building. And sometimes if you do, I think, yeah, a lot of. People do some sort of tech related product in the community. Not all of them though. And if you're a target group is, you know, not, not the average tech person or a nerd or so on.

From what I know, dark mode actually makes things worse. So I know this was kind of a joke because. You don't need it, right? But it can actually make things worse, especially if that's your default. Mm

Sandra: hmm. Yeah, I wouldn't bother, um, at the beginning as long as people are fine and no one is asking, especially the ones who are paying.

Dan: What do you think about just dark mode and no light mode then?

Sandra: It depends.

Dan: Perfect answer. Okay, I'm taking that. Ask my mother, she

Sandra: wouldn't even notice probably. If you would ask me,

Dan: I would say to you, it depends. That's the perfect software architect, you know, enterprise level answer that you could give. It depends, yeah.

Sandra: Sometimes good, sometimes

Dan: bad. Yeah. Okay. I'll take the next one by Gil.

He's saying, hello, after six months of hard work, I'm proud to reveal 5D plan, my latest iOS app. Lots of iOS apps. That's nice. Scan your home room by room, visualize the results in 3D, 2D, or first person view, modify as needed. So it's a AR app that kind of picks up all of your. Walls and everything and then you get the plan.

I want to try this. It is freaking brilliant His video is fantastic Absolutely, fantastic. Wow. This is cool. What

Sandra: is

Dan: the use case for this? You know when you move into a place and You want to get a couch and you ask your question? How big should the couch be to fit, you know, and then you kind of go on Ikea or whatever, and you need to know, you know, does a desk fit, does the, you, you can do your house planning essentially.

Right. Very cool. But you, it keeps adding rooms, man, it's a really cool app. This is brilliant.

Sandra: Yes, it's in the comments now. I want people to see what we are talking

Dan: about. Yeah, please go and check this video out because he essentially, he keeps adding rooms and making his whole house room by room and then he's getting the dimensions.

And, uh, the plan and you could, you know, see it from above and add furniture and Jesus Christ. This is brilliant.

Sandra: Ah, this makes me want to play Sims.

Dan: It is, but with your actual house.

Sandra: Okay, I know how to do

Dan: this right. Uh, yeah, I can't wait to download this, it is very cool, it's very cool. Sandra, are you excited about trying this app?

I am,

Sandra: I am.

Dan: You don't sound excited. I've seen you more excited with other products. What's, what's happening? Tell me exactly what you think. It's reminding me of Sims and I want to play Sims now. All right, that's it.

Sandra: Um, honestly, I've been, um, I moved into apartment this January and I'm I'm sick of the furnitures and moving around things.

Dan: You got a couch, right? Yes, I

Sandra: have a lovely couch. It's red.

Dan: Okay. And how, how did you know it's going to fit? Well,

Sandra: uh, because it was cheap.

Dan: So you didn't take the dimensions. You just thought, well, it's got to fit. Yeah. Okay.

Sandra: I measure it by my feet. That was like one step, second step.

Dan: Oh, wow. Okay. This app's not for you.

I'm sorry. Well,

Sandra: sure. But I sent it to my mother. I love her products now that we, we figured out maybe I should write a newsletter on the products she likes.

Dan: Yeah, I think so. Is she gonna join the show at some point for episode 100? Love the, do you

Sandra: remember, um, Calorie app? Yeah. The app we discovered. Oh, that was a good

Dan: one.

Yeah, it was one of our first episodes. Yeah. Yeah, so you can go on (I got you) Go through the episodes and there's a tag called mother where you can see all the episodes where you've mentioned your mom. It's great. It's great. All right. Should we take one more and then. I think I need to head back to the product front page.

Sandra: Um, Thomas Pustelnik.

It goes slower than expected, but it's heading in the right direction. Imagine you will be able to do the same for multi select and relation options. Really excited about this hashtag build in public, about what, where is the link, what is this done.

Dan: There is no link.

Sandra: How can we know

Dan: Thomas's profile has Clip app? Let's see, what's Clip

Sandra: app? Sim. Sim simply the best web clipping tool for notion. Is that it? Yeah. And it enables you to capture, highlight, comment, and create the web content effortlessly.

Dan: Yeah. That has to be, but yeah, this trend with the link. Not a fan, not a fan.

Sandra: Um, when I was on the beach because you don't know what to do on the beach anymore, it becomes boring at some point, um, I started seeing like whoever I stumble on my feed, I went through their link, like I went through their Twitter profile to see if they link things and I have a Google sheet of people who link and people who don't link.

I have to tell you our community or the group of people that we chat daily is quite good. Um, otherwise needs to improve. A lot.

Dan: Which chat? Which chat? I think, let's proceed. I think Thomas is. Definitely building something cool. I would recommend that he gives a little bit more background, at least in the first comment for people that haven't heard about his, uh, his app.

Notion apps are, are very cool. I, I know there's like a huge, huge market for this. There are people that absolutely love it or used to, at least, and people that can't stand it. So, but those that love it are super fans of Notion. They use it for everything. It's their life. Yeah.

Sandra: Yeah. Notion has succeeded into building this amazing community of people that are crazy about their products.

And, you know, the product itself is so flexible for other people to build on top of it. Yeah. It's absolutely brilliant job. It's a great example.

Dan: Yeah. Okay, do you want to take the very, very last one? Yes, please. Because I'm just curious about this one. So Vlad is saying...

Did you see it? Yeah. What started as a joke has turned into a product.

For now, it's just FaceSwap, but I have some nice ideas in the pipeline. Thanks, Linus. Excellent. I'm launching FaceFlip AI soon. So. Okay, you, I think this is, I've seen apps like this before, unless this one does something very cool, but you put a photo. yourself and then you have a bunch of templates and I guess your photo goes on those templates.

Is it a little bit like the, uh, there are a lot of these apps. I'm not sure which is the difference exactly, but then again, it's also very early for it. And there is of course, No link.

Sandra: Of course, no link, but it's an interesting way how he's doing it because he found the niche.

Dan: Yeah. It's all about distribution.


Sandra: Yeah, exactly. So he can reach out, um, you know, like the influencers and shit like that, because it's very interesting. He's doing it by the style. So if you want to see how something will fit on you and he could sell it even to like already established, you know, Companies to have it on their own website, like Zara thing and things like

Dan: that.

I think like a fashion plugin. Yeah, we haven't seen that. We have the headshot apps, you know, novels and Danny where you go there and you get new profile pictures, but this one could be. More generic plugin for other brands to, to use with their clothes. Why haven't we seen that? Isn't it, is it like a good idea?

This is

Sandra: a great example of how to niche your product. Yeah. Brilliant way of doing it. Vlad, just put that link and you are good to go.

Dan: Yeah. I'm actually thinking. If you do, so you're, you have a profile on these sites. So let's say you're on, I don't know, Zalando, people are using Boost, I don't know, whatever you're using and your profile also has a photo, right?

Or you put your photo and then you just get this sort of plugin with all of the items that they sell as well. So you can put yourself. Instead of the model, yeah, that must be coming.

Sandra: I haven't seen that. I haven't seen that. And I think this could be

Dan: it. Is it a stupid idea? Why haven't I seen it? Usually when I'm, it's either a genius idea or a very stupid idea.

Sandra: Really cool. I think he has potential to sell it.

Dan: Yeah. Um, cool stuff. Okay. I think it's time to wrap it up. I think we covered for the very long intro. So we, we sidetracked a bit with the show. I'll fix the legs in post, you know, I'll make it 30 minutes. Don't worry. I'll just cut, I'll just cut some of the, the product on stuff.

No one cares.

Sandra: I am just really grateful and excited. And, you know, I can see things happening and it's really nice.

Dan: Yeah. This is the making this show is one of the best things that I've started by far one of the best whatever products projects. That's awesome. Thank you so much everyone for listening in for the first time in 14 episodes.

I see Lera has joined live. This has never happened. Fantastic. Lera. So nice to see you. Bye. Finally. I hope you all will have a brilliant weekend. Remember to sign up for the newsletter on and see upcoming episodes or listen to past ones as well. They're all good, I promise. And they're available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

Sandra, take it away.

Sandra: Um, thank you guys. See you next. Oh, see you on Monday. I said I wanted to say next Friday.

Dan: Bye.

Sandra: See you. Bye.

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