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Episode 15 of Morning Maker Show: Laughing Your Way to Startup Success

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    Morning Maker Show


This week Dan and Sandra navigate the #buildinpublic with style. The duo shares their deepest insights and laughs at the absurdities of startup life. Tune in for a dose of humor, genuine stories, and a sprinkle of entrepreneurial wisdom. Let's go!

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Dan: Good morning, Sandra. Good morning, Dan. Perfect. How are you this morning?

Sandra: I'm really good. Yesterday I spent the whole day listening to our episodes and I have to tell you, we are really funny.

And I was like, in one moment I was walking down the street and I started laughing and I remember the guy in front of me turned to see what's happening and I was like,

Dan: sorry. I'm just laughing at my own joke. Sorry. It's very

Sandra: enjoyable, and there's a lot of things to learn. I'm


Dan: happy we started this show.

You found some gems in the past episodes?

Sandra: Yeah, I mean, like Like, we tell good advices if you

Dan: listen to them. Yeah, that's one thing, but every time I listen and I edit, I found, you know, some unexpected gem that either I said or you said, and I said, did I really say that? Yes,

Sandra: I was in shock. I think yesterday I sent you the part where I, I'm not going to even share it now

Dan: because I'm a little bit nervous.

Well, it's all, it's all everywhere on the internet. You cannot take it back anymore. That's the problem with the live show. Once it's out, it's out.

Sandra: Shit, yes. Oh, beep. You see, I'm

Dan: still learning. Light swearing is fine. I think, I think. The podcast knows we're, we're, we're a big podcast now. It's fine. I mean, Spotify, they, they actually have this polls in the podcast.

Did you see? Polls?

Sandra: No,

Dan: I just kept calling. I mean, I don't know. They, they allowed us to, so after each podcast, people can, can comment on the podcast itself. It's a cool feature. And I think, I don't know. Oh, yeah.

Sandra: I wrote a few of them that I really liked. I

Dan: love it. Yeah, it's great. It's great. All right. Let's do some updates from our wonderful community.

If you're ready. I'm ready.

Sandra: Yes, for sure. Let's do

Dan: it then. Just take the first one then.

Sandra: I was hoping you were gonna do it, but, okay. Um, RAAAA?! Adriano. Oh my god. I did this Good.

Dan: Oh, hi. Perfect. Well, you've just been in Spain, maybe

Sandra: that's fine. Oh yeah. Okay. Let me do this one more time. Raí Vieirrrrra.

Dan: Oh

Sandra: yeah. Yeah.

You launched the welcome screen baby's first questionary because even tiny humans deserve a red carpet entry Get ready for a dose of cuteness overload overload and high baby fashion profile. What is it? What's her name? Okay.

Dan: It's super cute. It's super cute.

Sandra: Do I need to have baby to use this?

Dan: Uh, okay. So the app, Nino, it's, I hope, well, uh, I said it in Spanish, but maybe that's stupid.

Uh, ignore me. Uh, is the ultimate. companion for modern parents. I think, I think you need to have a baby actually first. Okay, and it's making baby tracking a breeze. Log feedings, sleep schedules, diaper changes. Oh, this is so cool actually. Yeah, very nice illustrations and design, don't you think?

Sandra: Oh my god, it's beautiful and the colors, it's so soft and

Dan: sweet.

Yeah, these pastel colors. Yeah. I'd say I love that. That's very trendy right now. Well done, well done.

Sandra: Don't we match? It's

Dan: blue. Yeah.

Sandra: We started good this

Dan: morning. Yeah. It's, it's a good start. I think, is your onboarding this good? This is a very nice onboarding, but it's like typical iOS, like very high quality.

Sandra: Very high quality. And smooth and nice. Ugh. I need to do my onboarding again. No.

Dan: No. Is there a problem with your onboarding? No,

Sandra: no. But it can be smoother and nicer and prettier.

Dan: Yeah. Always. Yeah. Yeah. My, I, I essentially don't have onboarding at all. I'm thinking I should do it.

Sandra: I have onboarding and I'm always, I'm always jealous in people that have these cute onboardings and there is a small animal leading you all the way through the onboarding because you fail that you have a friend on this path.

Dan: Yeah, you don't have a mascot or anything like that.

Sandra: No, but no, no, me, Emma, can I be the one?

Dan: You could. Yeah, I'm just thinking the memorable brands, right? Even, you know, male chimp, you have, well, the chimp. And I will not forget that brand. Or post hog, you have the hog and so cute that you never forget. Or there were these guys with the bear.

Oh, the end. Yeah, the VPN, and they have a password manager, or they used to, I think it's getting sacked. And it, it was called Remember,

or Llama Life, right, by Marie, with the lights, you need an animal.

Sandra: Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. Oh, I still love that app. I'm still using

Dan: it. What animal would you do for Klu?

Sandra: Um, which animal

Dan: search? Search, search, like a big brainer elephant.

Sandra: Elephant. I don't know. I would still use me. I would just add.

Dan: Right.

Right. Yeah. Okay. But your onboarding is cool. I remember you have these, uh, green circles that show you, you know, click here, click here, right? That's how you do

Sandra: it. After the testing, so I had like, uh, I think two weeks of testing out onboarding with users and they were so confused about circles and I was so surprised.

Um, because they were totally lost. What does this circle even mean? So I'm in the process of changing

Dan: that. So how did you find that out?

Sandra: Well, I, um, had ten, like, two weeks of testing with multiple different users. Um, I separated groups in the ones that never tried Klu. And we went through the onboarding for the first time.

And then I went with the users that already tried Klu. And kind of knew what they were expecting just as the difference and it was

Dan: bad. Could you also see it in the data or was it just for through the interviews? Well, you see

Sandra: it through event now in postdoc. Once you hook up your app as well, you can see that people are not, um, actually clicking it or ignoring it.

And, um, but I wanted to see the user interviews to actually go in deep, like in their thinking.

Dan: Yeah, very cool. I don't. I don't know if that's specific to your app, but it's such a common way to onboard like there's the two ones you have the circles. And I'm super used to that because there's so many apps that have it, but apparently not, not, it's not for everyone.

Or you have this thing where it kind of takes over your screen and then fades everything, you know, to, to black and you kind of have like pop ups going left and right and top and bottom. And I absolutely hate that because I can't do the thing that I want to do.

Sandra: Whoops. You're not going to like the clone boarding.

Dan: Make a skip. Please make a skip. So when I have that and I can't skip it and I need to go for 20 steps, I just want, you know, maybe I want to pop it up later again. And I think it's It's good in the sense that it's, it's the clearest way to show it. But when I just want to try the thing and I don't want to go through the steps, you need to have the skip button.


Sandra: need to. Yeah. I placed the skip button. I think the issue with Glue was there was too many things that had circles and people just wanted to search. And that was the reason I made the pop out, um, skip button just to, and there's like three, three, um, screens showing you. What's the, what's the key features

Dan: you should use?

Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Well, I will build something this week, so I might ask you about some sort of insights on this. Yeah. For sure. Oh, very interesting stuff. Okay. I know how we got to onboarding, but maybe we should do that in the next update. Oh yeah. Yeah. We were talking about onboarding on Nino. Uh, the.

Baby tracking app, very cute and well done. So excellent work.

I'll take the next one by Damian Dabo.

He's saying: After almost a year of. Almost no growth. Revenue has been rising every month since rebranding to item list in September. I'm not sure from what. Now it's called item list. This month is much better than expected.

65 percent growth compared to the previous month. Be patient, stay consistent, and focus on your vision.

Sandra: And no link again.

Dan: Wait a second. I'm going in there.

This has Got to stop people. Please put the link in the first comment. I get it. There's not that much reach when you do The link in the first tweet. Let's say I'm still the judge is still I I'm not 100 percent sure that's true, but people say algorithm blah blah blah, but what's wrong in putting it in the first reply

Sandra: I don't know.

I, I, I wrote, I sent the newsletter and the last line in the newsletter is please put the link in your tweets.

Dan: Oh no, this app is going to ruin my life. Itemlist is a home inventory app. It allows you to effortlessly organize your belongings. And this, this is my week now. Scratch all the plans. I'm going to organize all my stuff in the home.

Sandra: Okay. As I have issues with productivity apps, Ben has different type

Dan: of issues. Yeah. We, you know, you have, do you have this drawer with cables? That's my problem. When you get all the crap, like you get the new phone and you already have a cable, then you, but it's a good cable and you put it in a drawer somewhere and then, you know, do this for many years and you have a drawer for all of the same cable.

Yeah. You never know when you're going to need it, huh? Yeah. Until this app.

I promise they're not our sponsor, but, uh, I am a little bit excited when I see these apps. I'm sorry. It's very cool to discover them. Last week I was so excited about the 3D house scanning app. Yeah.

Sandra: Yeah. If you guys missed that episode, it's worth just to hear Dan's excitement about it. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah.

Yeah. It was genuine. It was genuine. Yeah. Very good app, by the way. Very good. Sandra, did you, did you try to submit something to StartupStage? Yeah,

Sandra: I did actually. Last night I submitted Hunted.Space to, um, what did you submit?

Dan: Wait, I was supposed to submit as well. I'm joking. I've, I've also submitted Clobbr.

So, okay. A step back, uh, startup stage. That's, that's one of our sponsors. Um, we, we're trying out their app. We're trying out their flows and essentially talking about it, giving them feedback on the show. That's what we do to the sponsors. No filters at all. So they are. a place where you can submit your product and you go in a competition for one week with other, other products or other companies.

And then if you go in the first three positions, then they will write a blog post about you. They will include you in your newsletter. They will give you coverage on social media and so on and so forth. So this last week we signed up and this week we submitted our products. How did it go, Sandra?

Sandra: I mean, it was super fast compared to product hunt.

It was super fast for me at least. And I think this is the first step where they decided that they will make a decision. Will you be featured or not? Um, so there was like three questions. What is the product link to the product and who are the makers behind the product or what's the story behind the product?

So I think I did it in like five minutes, probably. Super smooth and fast. At least for me. Yeah. Yeah. I've submitted glue before. Um, they were our sponsors and I think it was already like in May or June, something like that. Um, and we were featured. Um,

Dan: as well. The featuring was pretty much instant for me.

So that was great. Um, I, I agree. It was very straightforward to put it in almost, almost too quick in the sense that I would have wanted to add something more that they didn't have. They had the video, but they didn't have photos. Did you? Yeah.

Sandra: But if I remember correctly, they will ask for the photos. they decide to feature you.

Dan: Oh, okay. So it's a two step

Sandra: process. Yeah, because now we are in the process. Of their deciding will, will we be featured

Dan: or not? Yeah, got it. Got it. Yeah. Okay. So, but, but I got a mail that it was approved. I saw it. So they're probably going to get back to me at some point and ask for, for extra photos or material.

You know, one thing that I've noticed, so pretty straightforward that the flow itself was well done. And I liked the animations and it was clear, like how much you have left. That kind of gave me, you know, I'm, I'm very, I'm very silly. I like the gamification thing. So I could see the progress bar and I could say, Oh, I'm a bit further.

You know, it was like a tiny, tiny game. So I liked that. One thing that I was missing and it was quite confusing was they focused on the company. And I know that's the difference to product hunt. They focus more on the company than on the product. But when I got to the company part, I wasn't sure what to write because.

I am the company, right? Yeah.

Sandra: Well, I just wrote what it is that, um, Hunted Space is, um, powered by Dan, Sandra

Dan: and Alex. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. So that was one, one thing. And the other thing was the team and for Clobbr, the team is me also. So I just wrote about me. I think that's fine. Um, I could, I could use, so maybe you have two modes.

You have, um, A company submission mode, because that's my view is this is like a VC angle on, on what you're doing. Right. So you're talking about your company as a. Potential, you're talking to an investor potentially that would like to know why should I invest in your company? Right. That was my understanding of it.

So you could have that mode or you can have the solo bootstrapper mode where you talk more about yourself and your product.

Sandra: Yeah. Maybe the, the, the wording itself could be changed because at this point I wouldn't, um, focus so much on preparing. My product for the VCs at all, and I don't think the VC itself are searching the products on product hunt or startup stage.

If you get me, you know, yeah. So in the eyes of makers or the company or startup, whatever, um. When you are submitting to these websites, um, or any websites, it could be product or startup stage. I wouldn't think about the the VCs because hunting VCs is a totally different process and requires totally different approach.

And I don't think any of them will come from startup stage or product hunt. So startup stage as a app. I mean, I would focus on the, you know, People, people or one person building this product and maybe changing the wording itself so it doesn't feel so far away from us.

Dan: So, so you, yeah, you would go in this direction completely instead of having the company focus at all.

Sandra: I mean, it, it doesn't matter pretty much. It's like if you, if the product is great, it doesn't matter if the one person made it or like team of five or 10 people. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think the customer or the user cares about that as much as we think about it.

Dan: You know, I really agree.

Sandra: Yeah. Oh, amazing landing pages and websites made by one maker.

And you would never think that it was made by one person. Yeah. And that's the beauty of this indie

Dan: making as well. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's, there's a lot of people that ask me to then say, you know, are you actually building this yourself? Is it just you or, or, you know, do you have a team behind you? Nah, it's just, it's just me, just a little me.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, all right. Uh, you know what this means, Sandra? No. I just realized that we're competing for the top three spots this week. And. I plan to win. I don't know about you.

Sandra: I, I, I don't know how to lose Dan And I, I'm just going to say that.

Dan: So we're going to be spamming our, our ex this week and try to compete against each other.

Is that correct? That's

Sandra: what this actually

Dan: means. Yeah. Fantastic.

Sandra: No, no, no. You did not answer my question. This means that we have three product launches just

Dan: this week. Yeah, uh, oh yeah, we're also launching the Morning Maker show on Friday. Yeah. Uh, okay, okay, did you, did you do your job and put the link in the, in the comments?

Sandra: Oh, if I put the link in the comments, put the link in tweets itself, and I have to say I don't agree with this, um, breach when it comes to like putting the link. in the description. You disagree, yeah? I totally disagree. I don't know, like, I think I've never, I mean, never intentionally wrote the whole tweet and then put the link in the comments because I think it's losing

Dan: time.

Yeah, I've done that. I'm sorry. Can we still do the show even though I have done

Sandra: that? Yes, because I like you very much. But um, otherwise it would be very hard.

Dan: I get a free pass. That's great Next time I do one without the link at all Okay, so in the comments says You can have a kangaroo as a mascot.

Sandra: I could, I could.

That's a good idea. I still on my

Dan: face. Yeah. Fantastic. Um, Matt is asking, do we want to guess what is the world's most durable data storage? I literally have no idea.

A book?

Sandra: Oh, I, uh, wait, I'm reading the comments.

Dan: I was already in the comments. It's not in the comments. You're trying to cheat. I'd say it's a book. Someone

Sandra: wrote a stone and I'm going to go

Dan: with this person. Well yeah, if you want the actual oldest, it's, it's probably what you wrote in a cave on the walls, right?

That tends to last for a very long time. Diamond storage. All right. Do you want to take the next one?

Sandra: Yes. Yes. Code Hagen,

what has been created this weekend? Been working on Sankey diagram. I think it's pretty cool way to see where our funds are flowing. Do you agree? Stay tuned for Project X update tomorrow.

Can't wait to share what we've been up to. Please show more Dan. Maybe there is a link.

Dan: No, there's no link. Just a video. There is a, uh, Oh, you want to know what the project is? You will not find this out by simply reading the tweet. It's very, I think, do you think this is a, people have noticed this and we will talk more about them on the show if they don't put the link?

Because now I need to go on their profile and we need to stall and we need to figure out what the hell is this project that they're talking about? Do you think this is

Sandra: it? No, I think we should just ignore it and comment on the things that we see. And that's it. Maybe then people will learn the lesson.

Dan: All right. I found it. Project X, interesting name, don't you think? Yeah. It aims to simplify financial management with a user friendly interface and robust backend. And it is actually, it's open source.

Sandra: I actually love this idea. I think I was tweeting about it, um, few times that I need a better visuals.

example of how and where the money is being spent.

Dan: Yeah, now I don't know the technical at all. Maybe I sound like, I think Matt, he's in the audience, he can tell us what the hell is a Sankey diagram. I Look at the photos and I think it shows how your incomes being spent as some sort of, uh, flow chart of sorts.

So you could see X income and then spending and then is it on transportation? Is it on food? And how much did you put in savings as well? Uh, it's maybe a pretty good way to see your. yearly overview. That could be cool. I'm, I'm really a sucker for these things. Do you use something like that? Or you're completely, how is, how are your finances?

Let's talk about your finances on the show.

Sandra: Don't let's not, but, um, I use Revolut and they have something similar to this, or at least you can see, um, where and how. You are spending. And it's quite scary actually to look at it because it reminds you of how irresponsible you are. I do it, I do it because I like to know how irresponsible or in which level I am and it's quite high.

Um, and I have a younger brother that I really like and I love spending money on him, so.

Dan: Yeah, I used to do a crazy thing. There was an app called Pocketsmith. I don't know if it's indie or not, it's probably big now because it was many years ago. And it was, I think maybe Revolut existed at that time, but it I didn't use it and I still use it as a side bank, if you know what I mean, is it your main bank?

Uh, no, side one. Side bank, yeah. So, like you don't put everything there, right? Yeah. I think that could be, but I don't know why I think it's risky. I mean, they're, they're actually a bank in Europe now, like legit bank, but it's still, in my mind, it's an app that. You use when you need to use, but anyway, so I would take out my bank transfers, put them in pocket Smith and they would organize everything.

So every single transfer that I made was in their app, and then I would have to go and there was no AI, there was no magic, anything, and I would have to say, you know, what this is for every single transaction that I had, because they couldn't really figure it out and transactions have, you know, this sometimes random texts, just.

Payment or I know PayPal or whatever. So it's a very difficult challenge to, to get the data in. And I wonder how project X is doing that. Importing your data is a huge challenge. I'm sure they have, they have something so interesting to try out this project. I love that it's open source. Don't you? Yeah. I also think these types of apps where you want to put your finances and so on, I like when they're open source because then you can actually see how they treat your data and, you know, kind of look through it.

Not a lot of people do, but at least I have the option to see. And supposedly you could host this yourself locally, so you don't. Put all your financial data. Yeah. Okay. Very nice. Do you want to take the next one?

Sandra: Um, Jan Potts

sneak peek. One of the most requested feature is coming soon to Mr. Cook multi select and mass actions, especially useful for the big update I'm working on.

And guess what?

Dan: No link. No comments. No problem. Ah, what

Sandra: do we do? Look, AI Receipt Generator. Oh, I might

Dan: try this. Turn ingredients into delicious recipes.

Sandra: I might try

Dan: this. So, AI powered app where I suppose you take a photo of your Fridge. I hope, I hope. They don't say, but it has to be your fridge. What else would you take the photo of and then they will give you recipes and then you can finally cook that three week old potato that's kind of growing again in the back of your fridge.

Sandra: This is very interesting. You know, when I, oh my God, we keep talking and talking except getting the updates. But when I was younger, there was this TV show, um, and there was this chef that would go to people's home and whoever or whatever you have in a fridge, he would make a delicious food, you know? And sometimes when I opened my fridge and I see two items.

I always imagine him knocking on my door and

Dan: trying to fix me a dinner, it's like. And throwing his chef hat and say, I quit. What can I do with one potato and some old milk? There's nothing I can make. Yeah, it's

Sandra: so funny, but I hope this can

Dan: help me. Yeah. Okay. I take the next one and I did this to myself.

Okay. Three, two, one. Brief then. Srutik Kumthekar

he says as an indie developer, how do you go about creating logos for your projects? I open Figma, draw a few circles and then boom, done. I have a logo.

Sandra: I have this. You make a very shitty project logo, or like the best you can do. And then I send it to Alex to ask for her opinion.


Dan: she does it. So you're saying crowdsourcing.

Sandra: It's brilliant.

Dan: It's brilliant. Well, you can use, um, I should have posted a comment. There's Mark, he made logo fast. You can use that to make a AI generated logo to, um, we did actually the logo for morning maker show. We did it live in the show. And we just use Figma, and you've used what for the image?

Um, ChatGPT. Yeah, so, ChatGPT. And you just put our photos and told it to make a logo, or how did

Sandra: you do it? Yes, I told him there's two lovely people trying to do a Morning Maker show, and they don't have a logo, and I want a 60 70 vibe, and put me granny, granny walls behind me.

Dan: It was super simple. Yeah, super simple.

I've used Ali for a couple things. The problem is, I got, oh, so actually I've used Dali for that and I got a 3D logo and it's the bane of my existence because it's very hard to edit and to make like variations of it. And, you know, 3D and Figma is, you can kind of hack some things, but it's not really.

Good. So keep that in mind and you probably can get the SVG out of it too.

Sandra: Yeah. I mean, even for, for KluLog, I just use the words. It's like, I don't know why, but I don't put so much. Time and effort into these

Dan: things. Oh yeah. That would be my first tip. So two of my apps [...], two of my apps have literally a C with like a nice background, like both and, they're literally a C in a box, it's been fine. I did get yelled at or not yelled at, but some people said, you know, get a logo. Uh, but honestly, it's, it hasn't been a problem. Of course, we were talking about having a mascot and having a voice and a brand and about positioning. So that's very important. If I had something like branding five, when I started, Yeah, I would have done it differently, but I didn't, I didn't spend much time on it.

And I still have the thing is launched. That's what's important. And I still have users and no one's really saying, I'm not going to use this app because your logo is not good. So a nice box with a shadow and then the initial of the app.

Sandra: I fully agree with you and I'm so happy Alex is not listening to us at this moment because she would be so

Dan: mad.

Yeah, I just tagged her and told people to reach out if they need a logo, she will do it for free.

Sandra: She's

Dan: gonna hate you for this. So please check the comments people and just add Alex and tell her I need, I need a new logo. And say Dan sent you, that's fine.

Sandra: Don't mention Sandra, please.

Yeah. Okay, one more,

Dan: one more, Dan. One more and then we go. We're having too much fun. People are like, this is not, you know, it's Monday, people. You need to be depressed. You need to be, you know, this awful week coming and you're just having fun here. And. The best time of your life. That's yeah. Okay. Do you want to do

Sandra: it?

The template section looks great on slick with now have video templates for first testimonials expose that with emojis and more. Um, promote went a step further where he I kind of forgot slick width and forgot to dot something, and it's

Dan: making me so mad. Has everyone talked to each other and agreed? Tom, come on!

They agreed. They just discussed, they had this chat, and they all said, we're not doing links anymore. This is common agreement, and if anyone does links, then you do them in private. You cannot build in public with links anymore. I think that's what happened. I mean, we are not invited to this meeting.

Sandra: We have never been invited to this meeting.

I'm really sad because I would veto that shit out.

Dan: So with make attention grabbing videos for your social media so you can make essentially a video of a tweet or a post whatever you call it and then some stats and then some animations emojis and and whatnot it seems we've seen we've seen stuff like this before but this one seems a little bit more crazy than the others like a lot more

Sandra: Yeah, it looks interesting,

Dan: actually, at some point there was this trend with so the original version of this was called GIF stats.

It seems like 10 years ago, but I think it was six months ago and, um, Everybody was doing the monthly updates then, where they would put their revenue and I don't know what not, um, and they would use the same tool, and it was getting crazy engagement, and then they would get a simple animation of the numbers going up, that was it, this one, it seems like you can animate it.

Everything. Yeah. Yeah. It looks very cool. Are you ever going to do some, some MRR updates, Sandra? No. It's not your thing? No. Maybe. Did I? Did I tell you my obsession this weekend? No. Okay. We're going so much over time, but I think everyone's enjoying this. So I am. So hello everyone. Thank you for joining us.

I found an account. You might, you must have seen it in this, in this group. I found an account of a person that's doing MRR charts, and then this person is supposed to be. You know, doing very well and in a very short time having a huge newsletter and the pianist as well and I kind of didn't buy it, you know, it, it had this strange, like all of the posts had the formula, right?

Every single post that they made hundreds of likes, like they haven't made a post that's not really viral. And it just was so strange to see this account. So then I, I got obsessed with it and I started looking deeper. And then, you know, this is getting a bit creepy, but there was a photo of this person and it looked very strange.

And then I started to, to see, well, this, this looks AI generated this photo. Okay. So I look closer. And then the logo on the laptop kind of wants to be an apple, but it's like mangled, so that's kind of strange. And I thought, yeah, but, but it's like very blurry in that area, so I don't know. Then I look at the fingers.

Yeah, it's, it's very, it's very disturbing. What? I am such a strange person. And there are only three fingers. And I think, yeah, yeah, that must be an angle. Right. But then we know AI can't do fingers very well. So that's my second thing. That's, that's strange. And then the last thing is. There is a video where the person is playing the piano, they're the pianist, right?

And then the hands are completely different, like completely different hands whatsoever, having all the fingers and then a lot longer hands. And I'm thinking, wow, this is like a huge conspiracy. What do I do with this information now? What do you do? So I'm afraid, because this seems like It's possible that there is an army of people making these accounts and then stealing this formula of how to get, uh, you know, how to get viral and just have no barriers at all because this person doesn't exist.

If it, if someone exposes you, then you just delete the account. You know, you probably have a lot of these, but I'm actually feeling some responsibility because in the comments, there are people that seem to be buying this and legitimate people. And it really looks strange to me. But if you see one of their tweets in the timeline, you might actually not, you know, get this full thing.

And I might be wrong here. But I went pretty deep and at this point, I'm 90 percent sure this is a fake account.

Sandra: I can't wait for you to send me that account to check it out. Uh, yeah.

Dan: I don't know. I don't know if I should. I, that's for, if you sign up for the newsletter, you will get the link to the account.

Sandra: But you know, something very similar happened to me, but it happened and I didn't notice it happened. It was like. Spam a few months where I emotionally connected to this person and anytime this person would comment on my tweet I was like, oh my god, because usually these were very long posts very emotional And I just thought it's a person who is just like a cancer in horoscope, you know And we'd love to be this emotional deep Thing.

And then I was like, I kept replying and commenting and I would always be happy when I see this post. And at some point, um, they replied to me that they are AI generated posts. And I was like, what the fuck? You

Dan: just tricked me. Um, it's very I, I don't like these people that do this. It's, it's, it's the exact opposite of why I went on, on Twitter and social media.

It's what's, what's your end goal? Because my end goal, you know, that's where I met you. And now we have a show and we do all these things. And if I went this completely opposite direction, what would I get out of it? And it would be, you know, a short. term thing, even if you do get something out of it, but people eventually discover this and then you're done.

I don't really get it.

Sandra: I'm not a big fan. Not a big fan. Not a big fan from even the tweets that are AI generated from the real people and the easily recognizable and doesn't not bring the value at all. And it's, I don't know. I think we're in this stage where it's going to be more and more of these things and, you know, it's going to be probably harder and harder to recognize them except if they don't have three fingers or six of them on one hand.

Dan: What if the AI generated tweets can be made based on your previous content?

Sandra: Now that's, that's even trickier. I think we had a conversation last, last show about that. You know, if it's able to kind of learn your patterns of how you are interacting with other people. it's going to be harder and harder to see that it's AI generated.

But then again, like, does it bring value to you or not? It could be good in one hand as well. It's very tricky.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Why, why do you do it? Maybe there's a case where you, you just want to say thank you to a bunch of people for something and then it's faster. But, then might as well not say it if it's not from your, from inside, I don't know.

Maybe it works for some people, Sandra.

Sandra: Yeah, I don't think it will work for us anytime

Dan: soon. I'm scared of the day where an AI has trained on my stuff, and it's so good that when I get the auto generated thing. I look at it and I think this is better than what I wanted to write myself.

Sandra: Well, that happened to me a few times.

And it's my job to be good at these things. And when I see the AI doing a better job than me, I'm like, Oh my God, I need to stop my game. Otherwise, I'm not going to have a job soon. But, um, if you can implement the good sides of it. I'm fully in and on board, you know, like English is not my first language and I do so much mistakes when it comes to that I can write the full blog and have thousand mistakes in it and using AI to just fix that in like second is it had it has been like such a power.

But when it comes to tricking people, you know, there is a moral, moral story of this. Like, don't trick other people into thinking something is not, you know, showing something that is not like that, especially in the MRR cases where people get hooked on it. And, you know, you're showing totally different picture of the world.

That is not that, um, you know, that's, that's fraud in my eyes. That's a new fraud and definition of maybe in the future, but fraud is going to be, but.

Dan: So, yeah, that's a very interesting tangent, people doing this, making a copy of your account and training an AI to, you know, make a duplicate of your social presence and maybe being believable, and that's totally a possibility that I see now.

So one project that I would invest in right now is a detector for these things. And then, you know, you, you can take a profile and then put it in a box somewhere. And it's going to tell you if that's the actual profile or it's AI. I mean, sometimes you can tell just by the followers and so on, but on a place like X, where you can have bots clicking things, I think it's pretty easy to get the number of followers to just.

you know, fake followers and bots and so on. So if that's not it, then how do you tell which is the real person? It's,

Sandra: it's very hard. I mean, we are still, as I said, we are still able to recognize it or see it, but In the future. Not for long. Not for long. Yeah. And I don't know will these detectors will be of any help at some point.

Dan: Agree, agree. Okay. I think this is gonna, this is gonna happen anyway, so we might as well embrace it. We're gonna, we're gonna be taken over by AI. So what can we do then? Have a great week and do the best we can while we can still do some work. I got this email this morning. I need to tell you about it.

We're so over time, it hurts, but I just want to read it. Okay. The email says, thank you for this wonderful product. Okay. Small story person, you know, had a tough time this year, COVID and so on. And then UI especially was a challenge for them. And they, they were having a hard time starting. And then they say, until I discovered ChipXen, and then end.

Now I'm passionate about coding again, and building a coding library to showcase my UI learning progress. Awww, Dan. I woke up in the morning and I have a serious problem with, with this because I go straight to the phone and read emails and everything. And then I found this one and I said, yes, it was worth it.

All the anxiety I got over the years for checking my phone in the morning, this email, worth it.

Sandra: Oh, this is such a nice email to get. Oh guys, you can't see Dan smiling, but he has such a cute smile right now.

Dan: I was the happiest person, I swear. This is why we're doing this. For this moment where, you know, you get a person appreciating the thing that you built and saying, you've changed my life in a positive way, or you've not changed my life, that's too much, right?

But you've affected my life in a positive way with this thing you've built. That's the best ever, forget about the, you know, LemonSqueezy payouts or whatever. This right here. It's all worth it. So I'm ready to start this week and do a lot of awesome stuff. Are you?

Sandra: Absolutely. Oh, this was wonderful, Dan.

It's such a nice reminder. Maybe, maybe we should do this more often where, you know, we find a product we love and it's from, from a maker we know and just show that the email of gratitude. Um. Yeah.

Dan: We should have a day. We should have a day where we do this. Yeah, maybe we should. We do a gratitude day. We do

Sandra: a

Dan: gratitude day.

Yeah. And I want to do, I want to do two things. So that whole day I don't do anything but email the products that I like. And email the makers that I like and thank you and tell them how awesome they are. Should we do this? We should. And we just DM people and say you're the best. You're the best.

Sandra: You're the best.


Dan: that bombshell, I would like to thank you everyone for joining. You're the best. You are, really. Thank you so much for listening to us today. Make sure to go to to see past episodes. Also listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And of course, sign up for our newsletter. It just went out today and it's one of the best.

Sandra just said, I don't care about what we did in the past. I'm doing a new format and it's brilliant.

Sandra: Yeah, it's, it's going to happen multiple times that you're going to change things and try to figure out things. But at the end, it's always, I think we started this show to acknowledge great makers and products.

And I try to remember that always in writing the newsletter and, you know,

Dan: it's good. It's good. Have an incredible week and we will catch you again on Friday.

Sandra: Yes, and Product Hunt. We are launching Morning Maker show on Product Hunt this Friday, so we're gonna have a lot of fun.

Dan: Did you also put the teaser in the chat?

I will do that. Great, the show has ended. Bye!

Sandra: See you, bye!

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