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Episode 4 of Morning Maker Show: Tinkering, Tweeting, and Transforming

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    Morning Maker Show


A delightful journey into the world of solo makers, code snippets, and AI-calculated calories.

Sandra and Dan explore the fascinating projects of solo makers, from an app turning images into CSS to a tool gamifying user engagement. They discuss the challenges of launching on Product Hunt, the joys of building without imposter syndrome, and the wisdom of young indie hackers. Plus, dive into the secrets of maintaining motivation, finding enjoyment in projects, and the exciting potential of AI-calculated calories. 🎙️✨

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Dan: Good morning, Sandra. Good morning, Dan. How are you? And good morning to everyone joining us. There's a lot of familiar faces here. How are you this morning?

Sandra: I'm very good. It's Friday morning. It's Morning Maker Show. Um, things can go wrong.

Dan: Can I tell the people what you've been telling me? The whole week that is basically we're just looking forward to this show and and being exciting about about doing it because I felt the same throughout the week is just, it's the best, isn't

Sandra: it?

It's the best thing ever. I wrote last night. It's so hard not to read the hashtag building public because I want to be surprised during during the show. Um, but it's super exciting.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. So for those that don't know, we don't do any preparation at all. So it kind of. It kind of seems that the content is good and it's selected, but we just do it on the fly.

We, we do not prepare. We do not know who we're going to read and who's going to, so just use the building public hashtag and you're gonna maybe be on the show. We don't know. We don't, uh, we don't do any preparation whatsoever before. Actually,

Sandra: I was mean a little bit last night because I wanted to be in the show.

With my own tweet, so I

Dan: Well, let's see if the algorithm works out in your favor. Yeah, let's see. Yeah, I also have a few tweets that maybe, you know, maybe I get a shout out. Let's see. All right, so let's get started. I think the first thing that I wanna, that I want to read is an update from the last show from Monday.

This is from Serhii and he writes, this morning I plan to listen to the morning show hosted by Dan and Sandra. However, Ukraine's leading phone and internet operator Keevstar experienced a hacker attack. Monobank is currently facing a massive DDoS and my schedule is completely disrupted. Nevertheless, I'm staying positive, he says.

I can listen to the recording. Of the show later, Kievstar is expected to fully recover in just two to three hours. tHen the clients are understanding and willing to reschedule the meetings. And he's considering to purchase a Starlink for better connectivity. And also, uh, he's going to increase his donation to, to the Ukrainian authorities.

Man, when I read this, I was on one hand, it, It made me very happy that, that sir, he wrote this and, and he, he wanted to listen to the show on the other hand, I'm, I'm heartbroken to read it and to, to know that, you know, some people have to go through this, that, that there's this, this thing going on and it's been going on for so long.

And, and it just makes me sad to, to see. So thank you so much Serhii for, for writing. Thank you for listening and stay safe. I hope this is going to end soon. I really do. I really do. Um,

Sandra: same here. And it's really nice. And even in these moments, kind of seeing this positive side of people trying to find ways.

of continuing their work. So, yeah,

Dan: that's just amazing. Yeah. Through all the hardship, just staying positive and, and doing the work. And, you know, that, that sounds to me like the, the right approach, continuing, doing what you like, continuing life, essentially. I, I, I have full respect. So thank you so much, Serhii, again.

This is great. Take care over there and thank you for joining the show. Yes.

Sandra: And then we move to Greg, I guess. Um, Greg is saying built and shipped a simple landing page for Mosaic. Some people have asked to explain what Mosaic is. Next week I'll continue onboarding more people to the closed beta to be continued.

Yeah, Greg is putting this together and there is a background story. Um, with this, am I correct? Yeah, yeah,

Dan: go on, yeah.

Sandra: Yeah, if I remember correctly, he started this by just exercising something and then it built all together. So it's really exciting to see.

Dan: Yeah, he's, so, Mosaic, I, I'm just looking at it now.

So it's essentially an app where you can record life stories and share them with, with your family. That seems like a pretty cool concept. I'm thinking, you know, my, my grandparents they have a lot of stories and of course we, we listen to them, but then they, they just. Tend to disappear when, when they get older and I really liked this, this concept.

It seems like a cool app. Um, I don't know if it's ready to try it. I'd like to, I like to try it. Maybe Greg can, uh, can tell us in the comments. Well, he's not, he's not here, but he's going to listen to the recording and I'm. I'm sure he's going to put something in the comments. But yeah, very nice. Okay.

Should I take the next one by Nick? Yes. So Nick says, today I'm celebrating 300 users at Onigiri. one. Really soon would share some secret sauce. Oh, spicy. That was silently launched previously and boosted. So. He probably has a project in the work or some sort of feature. Uh, this is a platform to simplify your freelance business.

That's kinda, that's kinda neat. I know a lot of people that do, you know, building in public. They, um, they also do freelance. I do that myself, um, too. So this it's like a pretty cool thing to check out. I hope it's something regarding

Sandra: accounting because I hate accounting.

Dan: Well, that's one of the things you have to do when, when you're, you know, just, uh, one person or a few people, you kind of have to do accounting, sales.

Um, a little bit of web design. Yeah. Uh, accounting not my thing. I just have, I just have a guy, you know, you need to have a guy and whenever, whenever I don't know, I call him up and he's saying, yeah, don't do this, do this. And I just follow, I

Sandra: just follow what he says. I found also really good accounting company and I, and I talk, it's a Finnish, you know, company.

So I talk to everyone about it. It's,

Dan: it's so good,

Sandra: accounting people are the best.

Dan: Agree. All right. Next one

Sandra: by Richard. Richard, um, Richard is saying, redesign done. Also improve the model dialogues. Honestly, I like it. Your web inspiration source.

Dan: I think, uh, let me see, there's a nice video, homepage gallery, I think this must be one of his projects, though, pro tip Richard, put a, put a link, huh, I, I would really want to check this out, it looks good, though, it looks good.

Oh, there is

Sandra: a comment, go and check it out yourself.

Dan: Oh, there was like, uh, uh, you know, for engagement, so you need to click on it. Yeah. So homepage. gallery is your web design inspiration source. So is this, yeah, yeah. It's essentially, uh, a gallery of different cool websites that, that, uh, that he's building.

Um, I like that. Yeah. Want to take the, or. I should take the one by, by Peter next. This is, this is one close to my heart to Peter says, somebody stopped me and there is undoubtedly a photo of him buying another domain, which is, which is a common, uh, a common problem here. I think You know some people have this, this issue more than others.

Some people have hundreds of them. Some people just have tens. Um, yeah. All right. Next one. You want to take it Sandra? Yes.

Sandra: Steph, oh, again, Steph.

Dan: He's been very active. You see, there's like three out of three shows. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He took this

Sandra: building public hashtag very seriously. Um, Let me see,

things are moving fast for the code snippets, desktop application available for Mac, Windows, Linux, very soon build in public. Yeah, he's moving really fast.

Dan: Yeah, I think he, he teased this last time at, uh, yeah, it's, it's essentially the, the thing that you could connect to your code base and then you can get refactoring and code suggestions and so on.

Directly from your, your code base. Pretty cool stuff. Sander, I want to ask you, is there, you've mentioned something before the show. Is there something. Do you want to, uh, say about the Christmas, uh, presents and, and, you know, it's the season now. Do you have something, uh, something in the works that's super secret?

Sandra: Yeah. So, um, I think our newsletter is the most important thing these days. Um, and I would really like people to sign up for the newsletter. Okay. Because I have this idea that we can collect or ask few people in community that are building the products, if they would like to give their products on a discount or the free version for the Christmas presents.

And I think that's really nice. Um, so we can pull some pretty cool products that we are already using, and then I can slide to some people at the end and ask them really politely to give it to us

Dan: for the Christmas. Yeah. You're going to do a newsletter today, right? Yes. I can't wait. The last one, I, I, I had so much fun reading it and I, I knew the content, right?

Cause we read it on the show, but the way you did it and plus some of the, some of the Easter eggs with, with, with your mother that, yeah, yeah. Becoming the

Sandra: center part of our newsletter. That's for sure.

Dan: Yeah, that's for absolutely sure. Yeah. All right. Let me just get to, to the next one then by Anthony.

So, Anthony says 1 of the most useful communication features in use brew. is comments. Today I shipped a huge update. Emoji picker, slash command in comments and attach file in comments. So use brew, let's see what this is. It's something that allows you to productize yourself, earn more by doing what you're good at.

Kind of sounds like a freelancing platform where you can productize yourself. Gotta, gotta check this out. Sounds like a pretty interesting concept and yeah. Comments. Do you have. Do you have any comments or chat in in Klu, Sandra?

Sandra: I mean, we have a chat, so you can chat with your own data. But, um.

Dan: Yeah, it's not, not a chat feature per se. I imagine this is more like you chat with your, uh, with your customers. That's kind of, that's kind of what I have in mind. Pretty cool stuff. Um, let's let's jump to the next one by Charlie.

Sandra: CHarlie says, by the way, he's in a bus

Dan: in the back of a bus, even I would say

Sandra: we dust ourselves off and keep going.

So Charlie's in a bus, um, building something. So for sure. Yeah. And keep going. I fully agree, Charlie,

Dan: with you, you know, I think, I think in the pilot, Charlie was part of it. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember this update where he says, uh, he didn't have a bus ticket and probably the same bus and what happened was the next shot was that he got Kicked out of the bus or maybe a control came and then he had the shot with his bike I believe and then just the bus driving away from him while he was on the street.

So Pretty cool story tough times. So it's it's You know at the same time he's probably going through a few things, but you know, God admired this determination. He's He's not giving up, uh, he's, he's, uh, determined to make this work. And he, every day he goes in the bus or wherever he could work and he keeps going.

So awesome, Charlie.

Sandra: Yeah. There is one person, um, that is not using building public hashtag, because if he did use the building public hashtag, we would have a nice content, but he has been bootstrapping, um, in his car for the past 10 days. And I'm following every single day. And it's

Dan: so funny. I've missed that.

I've missed that. That sounds awesome. Yeah. So, so what was it strictly from the car or how does it work that he's not allowed to go out? Well,

Sandra: I guess he needs to go out the bathroom at some point.

Dan: Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Sandra: Majority of the time he's in his car trying to do something and it's really funny. Every day, it's some kind of new adventure.

Dan: So, so this next one is quite funny. It's, it's by someone called Sandra. You want to read this one really quick?

Sandra: Um, yeah, so look at this person. Um, Sandra says, I don't read hashtag building public posts before the show. But I hope to see some cool products and people tomorrow. These episodes are truly making me super happy.

Talk to you awesome people tomorrow. Don't forget to put that hashtag

Dan: tonight. What a great post, huh? What a great post.

Sandra: I told people put that

Dan: hashtag in. She's very talented. She's very, very talented, DeSandra. Oh yeah. So, um. Let's let's jump to, to Stefan here. He's saying, Oh shit, here we go again. This is actually an older one, but Hey, this is the, the, the, from December 8th timeline is, is, um, you know, the algorithm has its ways.

Stefan says on product hunt for the X time this year, this time on a Friday, because we want to get the number one badge. Spoiler alert, that did not happen. I know, I know we can't do it alone. We need to support. So this one was for something called Swift Brief, I believe, which is a tool for SEO and keyword research, keyword clustering, and so on.

I really know Stefan had a bad time with this because he wasn't featured on Product Hunt. And then, uh, yeah, when you miss the first few hours, uh, it's, it's very hard to get by. I think it was featured eventually, but it was, or, or maybe towards the end of the day, it wasn't a good launch. I'm really sad when that happens.

And there's been a lot of it. There's a lot of negativity towards first product hunt. And I really wish you could talk to someone, you know, I think. Just see what? Why? Why haven't we been featured? And what's going on? You agree with that? Yeah. I

Sandra: mean, we've been through this multiple times, um, through this year, and it's really sad to see every single time.

And it happens. Um, usually they like when you reach out to them. Um, if you're not featured, they do reply to you. But as we can see, there are moments where they don't. And then the whole launch. It's pretty much screwed after that, and that's really sad to see

Dan: it's really sad because there's so much work that goes into this and when you don't get featured and you don't know what's what's wrong, what did you do wrong?

Um, you kind of. You kind of lose your, your faith in ProductCon. I think this is the call for a lot of transparency. Like I, I love it. And you know, I'm, I'm, I'm always going to defend it, but being on the other side of this would be horrible. I don't wish it to anyone. It's.

Sandra: They should just hire someone from the community.

I mean, this, like, what, what, what is happening? I mean, all the people that are working for ProductHunt, and there's few ones, um, they're not that active in the community itself.

Dan: Right. I always thought that's weird, or even the, the ProductHunt account itself never, ever engages unless it's maybe a joke or something like that.

But. You don't get, you know, any sort of communication when this stuff happens. There's just, you feel like you're alone, and that's And that's not good when you've prepared maybe for weeks sometimes to, to, to launch this thing or some people, you know, and I know Stefan, he worked many months on this new new product or new version of the product.

Yeah. All right. Next one by. Yeah, sorry. Wanna say? Well, um, I, I

Sandra: also told this to Stefan and I keep repeating this, you can launch as many times as you want. And sometimes people forget that. And I think that's super important. There is no rules. I've been, I, I've been, I I launch Klu two times and I'm gonna launch it probably three more , you know, so it's, it's, you can do it all the time.

So don't, don't be stopped by that, but yeah.

Dan: Yeah. Alright, take the next one. My, uh. Pratik.

Sandra: Pratik. Pratik is introducing image to css. com. Upload screenshots of anything and get CSS code. See demo below. Drop a hand and I'll send you something. That's

Dan: really cool. What the hell is this sorcery? Does that really work?

Oh man, I need to try this. I need to try this. So it essentially recreates the image out of CSS. Wait, I want to see. This is just insane. Wow. Wow. So wait a second, you could do like a Figma mock up and then put it here and then you get The code for it, is that kind of, okay, I need to try this

Sandra: credit. Please put that.

Dan: Uh, this is really awesome. It reminds me of, um, what, what's it called? V zero, uh, right. What were you, yeah, you, you describe what you want and you can, you kind of get the component, uh, at the end. I'm really, I'm ready for this kind of stuff. I'm ready for new. You know, tools that make more efficient, like in the past year, there's been so many.

that completely changed the way I work. So I love this trend and I love people trying things out, innovating in the space. Um, it's just great. So next one by, by Clem, I can take it. Yes. We, you know, funny thing aside. I don't think we read any MRR posts since we did this show, like not even one. No, no chart, no nothing.

Are people stopped sharing MRR charts? I wonder. It feels very weird because I used to see them all the time, or maybe,

Sandra: or maybe we are just not making any money.

Dan: Maybe this is a slow month in December. I saw this, yeah, I saw this. December is kind of a slow month, especially for something after the Black Friday slash Cyber Monday thing.

December just came to a, to a crash. Anyway, uh, Clem says decrease churn, boost your MRR, nice, nice little keywords there. That's the mission of my new SaaS. Now in beta with early bird offer for one week only. And the SaaS is called Keep User, good name, reduce return and boost your revenue. Gamify your product and increase user engagement.

This kind of sounds cool. I wonder how it Uh, works in practice. Uh, yeah. Yeah. We talked about this. Oh yeah. So, so the user can get either a streak or levels or coins or like a punch card with I guess, uh, activity. I love this. We talked about this in another show where you see these projects, products, and you just want to try them out, uh, because it looks exciting.

Clem, you're building something very cool. Can't wait to, to try your thing. All right. Sandra, do you wanna, do you want to mention something about the comments? Cause, cause we're reaching the end of the show.

Sandra: Yeah. Um, we want to try this new thing where we kind of like also interact a little bit more with the people.

So if you have any, um, questions or comments or you want to jump in the conversation with us as well.

Dan: Yeah, just, just write it. And we'd love to hear from you. Yeah, or just you just want to say hi, just say hi as well. That's also okay.

Sandra: Well,

Dan: Hi All right. Next one by alex. Ooh

Sandra: Alex, sometimes we need to learn from young indie hackers who build in public many of them don't have an imposter syndrome unlike us They just do all they can and often don't think about the architecture and best practices love to read progress of newcomers Well join the show

Dan: Ah, that's such a such a good one, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, I

Sandra: feel it. I think we had a bit of a discussion last time about this. And, um, I mean, I've joined I've joined this community maybe a little bit later because the only thing I remember or I know is this vibe and hype. I don't know how it was before. And there is a lot of comparison.

These days, or like people saying it's dead, nothing is happening. And I think the reason for that is just because people keep, people, people keep, um, comparing how it was and how it's now. And maybe we just need to adjust ourselves to.

Dan: Yeah. It's, it's also one of those where the, the more, you know, that the, the more you worry about things and it.

It can slow you down when you know, yeah, there's this thing that you should use to do it proper way or whatever. Yeah, we had this last show too. I think the proper way is the, the thing that you're productive in, the thing that you know very well and you can move fast and, and then if. That should be enough to, to make a product.

And if that's successful, you can always improve it, right? Once you don't need a rocket ship to, to validate a product and to get customers on it even. Right. Yeah.

Sandra: Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: All right. Next. Yeah. Next one by Jonathan. He says on Sunday, I turned 27. Happy birthday. And since my last birthday, I made 35, 000 with Indie Hacking compared to just 2, 000 the year before.

Wow. That's, that's, uh, can you pull out the calculator, Sandra, real quick? Give me a percentage. 7, 700.

Sandra: On to reach 60, 000 starting from zero today. Let's see if we can get

Dan: there. Wow. So. First of all, yeah. Congratulations, Jonathan. This is, this is awesome. I've been saying this when you start, you know, things are slow and it's going to take a while, but if you keep going, if you keep pushing that thing, if you keep talking about it, you know, things, things go.

Things go up eventually. And this is such a good example of that. It's like a huge, huge growth. And very ambitious too. I hope, I hope Jonathan is going to reach his 60k goal. That seems a lot more reasonable than, you know, from 2k to 35. From 35 to 60, that's totally doable. I, I would even, I would even say he's going to do better.

Let's see. Exactly. Yeah. Um, a short joke. Do you want to, I don't know if it's a good joke, but I think we should do it anyway. You want to take it?

Sandra: I put the pro in procast and also in programming.

Dan: I served you, I served your curveball with these words, huh? I put the pub in pub. Building public. Yeah, you know, I think we should actually think about changing, uh, the titles and actually, you know, the problem is we don't prepare for the show.

So I don't know what we could put in the title that will tell you what's in the show, but at the same time, I feel like we, we need to get creative with this. You know, we need to, we need to up our game in the titles. So. Yeah, pro and procrastination. Um, there you go. Okay. Sandra, how much time do we have?

Sandra: We have

Dan: two minutes more.

Yeah. Did you prepare our sponsor for today? Of course.

Sandra: Of course. I prepared our sponsors for today. That's my job. Correct? Correct. So ladies and gentlemen, Morning Maker show is today with us sponsoring this episode. The only request is to sign up for the newsletter and you get the Christmas gifts, which is brilliant.

Dan: Very well done. I think, uh, the sponsors are getting, uh, better with every show. Um, so yeah, I can't wait for that newsletter. When are you going to send the newsletter? Do you know is it later today? Um,

Sandra: no pressure. No pressure. I'm writing it today. Last night. We, I, I mean, I wrote it quite late, so we send it in, um, Saturday morning and it was kind of nice because then we had a whole week and just to sit down and read the newsletter.

Dan: Yeah. That's great. I am looking very much forward to that. Okay. Let's say, let's say one more. You want to take the, the one from Tim here?

Sandra: Yeah, Tim is saying, finally, my app calories, CalorieEasy. app is now live and on App Store. Um, you can download it, works with any food, just scan and AI log your calories.

Oh my God,

Dan: I want this. You're getting this right now. Track

Sandra: calories with AI. I mean, you can track calories, but can you track it with the AI? That's totally different vibe.

Dan: Yeah, so my, yeah, my understanding is, and this is like the, the holy grail of this whole category of apps, right? It's, you take a photo of whatever you have on your plate and then it says, This is the amount of calories.

It's crazy, huh?

Sandra: Oh, it's

Dan: risky as well. It's Listen, you mentioned who did you mention that that someone was asking you to do this? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Here we go again. . What, what did your mother ask you to do?

Sandra: Well, she's not yet familiar with ChatGPT, and I don't want her to be familiar with that because I tend to be very smarter on her.

Sandra: Very into healthy diet and exercising and things like that. So I was just measuring like how many calories she needs to intake per day because of her weight and height and et cetera. And she was like, Oh my God, you are calculating this really fast.

And I'm like, I know it's my secret talent.

Dan: Uh, wow. So. It's a bit of cheating, but I probably, I probably do the same, to be honest. I'd probably do the same. So, That's an interesting topic, you know, the people that don't use chat GPT yet, do you think it's just a matter of time or do you think they will, they will never get to use it?

Not your mother, especially, but just as a general concept,

Sandra: they will experience the AI differently than we did like, um, you know, we got hooked on chat GPT in the early stage and we found our ways to work with chat GPT on a daily basis, but I think they will experience, um, I mean, open AI differently, just like through these apps, like my mother will probably if I send this to her, start taking pictures and fully believe, and not even knowing that she's using you know, AI at all, um, which is brilliant.

I think it's much better way.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking that they, they may be experienced indirectly through the hundreds or maybe thousands of. Of apps that use it under the hood and you don't have to, you don't have to know it's that right. As long as it fulfills the task, then you don't, you don't really care, but you do kind of use it, uh, without thinking about it.

You do use it. Yeah. Yeah. Why I think, uh, well. Uh, two minutes left. You need to run for the meeting. Um, I,

Sandra: I just got the message that people will be

Dan: late. Okay. We'll take one more. Then we take one more. This is interesting from Mikhail.

Sandra: How do I start to build in public? I have very little time and I mostly make little progress on my own projects.

I managed to work on them once or twice. A week, maybe three times if it's a good week and what if it's just that I'm tinkering, tinkering with, but where am I? What? Ah.

Dan: And what if it's just that I'm tinkering with, uh, but I'm not sure it will live on. So essentially if, if it's just, you know, trying out something and he's not sure if it's ever going to be a real app or, or, you know, a product that he can sell.

But that's the point. Yeah. Well, let's take the first part, you know, how do you start doing this? Especially if you have, yeah, it seems like he has a, you know, proper schedule at work that, that he takes most of his time. Why do you think is a good way to transition into this?

Sandra: Well, first of all, it's a great start when you are using.

Hashtag building public one check. Good. Um, it depends. I think if you start something on the side, but you're quite excited and passionate about it. Um, you tend to kind of find time and put effort, even when it's very late, you know, when you're tired, it still makes you happy and you're excited. So I guess at the beginning, finding something that is enjoyable to build for you, I guess.

Dan: Oh, that's a great tip. Yeah. So the best way to stay motivated is to actually have fun and enjoy, enjoy what you're building and not seeing as a, Oh, I need to do more work, but find the first projects at least, you know, maybe that could change later on, but the first projects should excite you and get you out of bed and say, Oh, I can't wait to, you know, Get to Friday or finish work or, you know, do whatever I do to, to start working on this.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's one thing. And the other thing, yeah, you pointed out very well. I think for me talking about this, sharing updates was a great way to, to stay motivated, especially if you, if you make a habit out of it, you're gonna, you're gonna feel strange if you don't do it even for a day. And we think, yeah, I'm, I'm going to have to do just a little bit today so I can share a small update for, for everyone.

That's a great way of keeping, uh, motivated and, and just building things without, yeah,

Sandra: not putting pressure on

Dan: yourself for sure. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We have, uh, we have a small question. Do you still have time? Yeah. Okay. So Ritvi, I probably did not pronounce that correctly. How do you view investor involvement in your journey as an indie SaaS maker?

Do you see it as essential for scaling or do you prefer maintaining independence and control?

Sandra: This is a very good question. Um, I mean, I can tell what happened in our case with Glue. Also Investments are very tricky. And I would say as long as you are able to push by yourself and maintain it by yourself, don't go and raise money.

Only raise money if you know for what are you raising money. And I know that's like, Oh, that's so simple. And you know, it sounds simple, but you really know, need to know how to use this money. Otherwise it's going to go to waste. And then you are in even more deep shit because you are using someone's else money.


Dan: And then they started demanding things from you too, right? It's, it's, it's not a good position to be in. It's not a

Sandra: good position. Only invest, only raise money if you know where this investment needs to go. If it's scaling, if it's people, if you see certain or you are reaching certain goals and you are not able to push more than that and you want.

Dan: Yeah. I'm subjective here because I like the mix of doing some freelancing as opposed to raising money to have a little bit of a runway. I, I think this is a good approach because when you do the raising money alternative, you, you might not. Get the same out of it. So let me explain when you, when you set out to do this, uh, building solo entrepreneur thing, you do it because you want more freedom because you want to, you know, have the flexibility to take your own decisions and, and so on and so forth.

And I think in a lot of the cases, unless you're a very, you know, strong person would have, would have great. Ability to steer things and you have the vision and everything this, this might take you in the opposite direction. And that's the question you should answer perhaps when you take investment, you know, are you.

Maybe you're just in this to to try something else, and it's, it's about making money differently, right? If it's that, um, then that's fine, but I think a lot of people, when they, when they start doing this, they, they buy into the lifestyle of being to take, being able to take your own decisions and having more flexibility, which is, It's another topic that's not really true, is it?

But at least that's the idea. Because when you start doing support and all of that, uh, all of that stuff, then you might find yourself with less flexibility than you had in a, in a nine to five job sometimes. So side topic. Yeah, for sure.

Sandra: I mean, when we decided to take the investment for Clue, it was, we knew that we want to move to enterprise.

Enterprises and to build a platform like Clue to the enterprises is quite hard. And I mean, it required from just security aspect going through this whole protocols and getting them and then building the platform that can handle the enterprises. So we knew that there is no possibility to move there.

Without the, without the raising funds.

Dan: Yeah, very good. I made you late for the meeting. So let's wrap it up here. Thank you so much, Sandra. I, I, again, I cannot wait for the newsletter later today. Uh, this is like the highlight of my, my day, my weekend. Actually, I would say months, but Christmas is coming, but oh yeah.

Okay. Let's, why not? Why not? Yeah, I feel

Sandra: like. And that is this month. I can, I can do better.

Dan: Yeah. So if, if it's anything like the first edition, uh, oh man, I can't wait. Thank you so much for today and thank you everyone for joining. Remember to go to, sign up for the newsletter. You can see past episodes, listen to them, and we'll see you in the next one.

Please remember to get notified as well. See you. Thank you, Dan. Bye. Bye.

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