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Episode 3 of Morning Maker Show: Navigating Copycats and Winter Blue

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Summary

Join us as we uncover new stories from the #buildinpublic community. We explore the delicate balance of sharing strategies in public and the importance of community support. Plus, listen to Sandra's Christmas issues! 🎙️✨

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Transcript

Dan: Good morning. Good morning, Dan. How are you today, Sandra?

Sandra: Very good, very good. Exciting things to do

Dan: now. I wanted to ask how your weekend was because I have no idea what I did yesterday and it seems like this is the, the Monday for me.

Sandra: Oh, the weekend? That's such a weird question. What did I do this weekend?

Oh my god. Where was I this

Dan: weekend? Did you prepare for Christmas? Did you get a Christmas tree?

Sandra: No because my mother is anti Christmas everything so it's very hard with her. She bought this something that she's calling a Christmas tree and it's very sad. So I guess no gifts this year.

Dan: Really good. Does she have one of these plastic ones?

I shared

Sandra: it on my Twitter, Dan. I cannot believe you, you didn't saw that, but it's small and it's blue and it's giving this some kind of lights. It's just very sad and

Dan: weird. Yeah. So you're, you're more into chopping down your tree, being traditional, decorating it nicely, you know, doing it properly. Am I right?

Sandra: And now, um, I love to enjoy seeing it in someone's home. I appreciate Christmas, but for me, it's too much work to do.

Dan: Okay. So you're more of a, I have a friend that has a nice Christmas tree. Let me just go over, enjoy it. And then I go back home and I don't have anything to do.

Sandra: I take pictures for Instagram also.

So people know that I'm in a Christmas mood other than that.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, but you're, you're enjoying Christmas. I think, you know, in the Nordics, the, the, the Christmas time, you need to do this to survive. Like you need some hope in life. Yeah. So it's, yeah, this in the Christmas markets, right?

Sandra: No, yeah, that's very true.

I think that what is keeping us together during December and, um, Or like even late November, then December is this Christmas spirit that we all share. It's kind of like the mood. Um, so it's really nice to go through the city and see all of these lights and, you know.

Dan: Oh, yeah, but you're going to see the lights because it's all dark outside, like the daylight lasts for three hours and you wake up, it's dark.

And then when you go back home, it's dark again. So there are plenty of lights because it's always dark. So, okay. Hope we'll make it. I. I have like a breakdown around February usually when I'm like, okay, this is not going to work. Is this three months until there's sunlight again and warmth? And then I usually have to go somewhere at least, even if it's for a weekend, you know, that kind of gives you hope and okay, I can push through.

Uh, yeah. Yeah, for

Sandra: me, January is worse because from this whole Christmas vibe spirit, we go into this dark, depressing January and it's a long month, you know, and it's very hard.

Dan: Yeah, you throw out the decorations and it's all, there's nothing to look forward to, you know.

Sandra: You're in depression, but I've learned, okay, before, now we, now we are taking in a different direction, but I've learned this, um, In Finland, is that during December, there is this, you know, uh, winter depression and it's very well known.

Um, and my professor, when I was, when I was talking about it with him, I talked with him about this winter depression and he told me, and I was very worried when I was talking about it. And then he told me it's the best time of the year and I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? It was like. Um, it's the only time where depression is totally allowed in the society.

You can openly talk about it. You can go home and be depressed in your bed. It's totally fine.

Dan: Completely normalized. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please everyone. Yeah. Go ahead and be as depressed as you want because we're all doing it. Yep. Yeah. All right. Let's let's get, uh, going and read some, some exciting updates.

Um, we have Justin here. Do you want to? Yes, I read the first

Sandra: so just in a whoop in between selling my home and getting kids Christmas presents. I've built video answers. Make sharing knowledge even more personal. You now have a choice between answering in text, audio or video video. Excited to get more educators on the join quota to try.

This is very interesting. Congrats, Justin.

Dan: Yeah, congrats, Justin. So, he's making an app called CUDA with a Q. I hope I pronounced that CUDA. It could be CUDA, actually. It's a micro learning app. Uh, get snackable insights from the world's best educators. I wonder it's, I haven't seen it before, or maybe I have glanced at it, but it kind of looks like a platform where you, you can actually.

Uh, join as an educator and communicate directly to students. I'm not sure. Maybe Justin will, uh, will see our comment and pitch in and, and tell us how this works. It looks pretty nice though, the app. Yeah,

Sandra: it looks really nice. I want to know more.

Dan: Yeah. So Justin, please please tell us more. I I'd love to hear what you're, what you're building.

Okay. I have the next one. Uh, for, from Charlie Coppinger, this is going to be a short one, Sandra, he's just saying I'm tired.

Sandra: I saw actually this yesterday.

Dan: Uh, it, it's, you know, it's, it's a short one, but Charlie, I can totally relate. I actually just wrote, we, we have some, some chats and I just wrote, I need a break as well.

It's been a very long year. building a lot of things. And, you know, it's, it's normal to feel tired. Are you tired, Sandra? How, how is the end of the year for you?

Sandra: I'm not tired. I, I, I'm, I'm ready. I, I, I feel so much energy. I don't know why, maybe I'm just sick. That, that's good.

Dan: You know, but that's what I like.

Like you're, you're always. Full of energy and always, you know, ready for action. So, you know, if it was, if it was just me doing the show, it would probably be like, Oh, okay, let's take a break. We've done enough with the show. So thank you for that. Why don't I take the next one from Matias.

Sandra: Yes, Mathias, indie Hackers, um, you are leaving, you are leaving money on the street.

Effective brand positioning can increase, um, revenue up to 20%. Position your brand Strateg strategically strategy. Yeah. Um, God, Mathias in the market and get higher revenue with the same marketing cost. Effective brand positioning can increase revenue up to 20%. I, I, I, I, again, we are talking about the Matias and what he, he, he built with the brand, but I.

Actually love it. I think they cracked something. I think that they saw that something was missing, especially with the indie hackers or the people that are just getting or building things. Um, and when I tried their app, it was so clear for me and I was surprised. How detail oriented for branding and positioning it was it, it, it, it, I immediately asked, wait a minute, how long it took you to build this?

Because I was really, really surprised how good it is.

Dan: Yeah. So for those that haven't seen it, it's called branding five and you, it's kind of an interesting concept. I agree. You. You, you do something similar to, okay, I don't have a better example, but Tinder, but you do it with things that relate to your company.

So maybe it's other brands or, and you swipe right, if that's, you know, connected. To your brand and then you swipe left if it's not and it's sort of a gamified way to to create this this persona and there's a lot more to it but that that's a big part of it and then at the end of it they they essentially create.

Everything you need for your brand from, you know, the messaging to the voice and tone to even examples of copy and, you know, how, how to approach your, your brand. And it's such a nice thing when you don't know what you're doing to, to have that help and to have, you know, maybe it's not. The final thing, but you need to start somewhere and it's an amazing start that you can, uh, you can add on top of.

So I, I really love it. I really love it. I think I'm going to try it for, for my next project for sure to start, start with that. And, you know, I was thinking you can even go further. Like you can, you can even now with, with AI, you could generate a logo from that. You could generate even like a landing page.

Wouldn't that be very crazy? I, I

Sandra: compared it with, um, because not with Tinder, Dan.

Dan: Sorry,

Sandra: that's, sorry. Canva is kind of like an entering easy point for many people when it comes to brand positioning or forming the brand around something you're building. But Canva didn't go, with Canva you need to know what to create.

And I, I think that's usually problem and you need to know. But These guys really led a user through this whole process of creating something. So good job. Good job.

Dan: Very well done. All right. Next one by Olive. Do you want to take it, Sandra? Yes.

Sandra: Um, Olive, I refunded a user purchase for the first time yesterday.

Whatever the opposite of dopamine is, I've got a lot

Dan: of it. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Bittersweet, huh? Yeah,

Sandra: yeah. I think we all should go through this. Honestly, it's it's not a big deal. It could be that, you know, misunderstanding or they just don't need it at the moment. It could be that they will come back. I think it's a great learning lesson to reach out to this user or a customer and find out what happened.

Dan: So no, that's a good tip. Yeah, if if it hasn't happened already, then yeah, just see. I, I wonder, I, I also had a couple and okay, one of them was this, the, the, the thing that I was building Shipixen, it didn't work on Linux and that's, I, I, I'm sorry. It does not work there yet. Maybe it's going to work in the future, but the other one was.

Um, more misunderstanding in the messaging. And I thought that's very interesting because, you know, there's, you know, more than 130 something people got it. And then there was one that actually read the copy and thought it will do something else that it didn't do or didn't do yet. At least, so it was very interesting to talk to that, uh, to the customer and understand what their expectations were.

And I literally asked, you know, is there something we could change in the copy to actually make this better? Right? So you can take it as an opportunity to learn. Definitely. Yeah. Did you ever have that kind of experience for Klu? Not yet. Not yet. Oh, lucky you. Lucky you. It's also because Klu is such a great app.

Sandra: No, no, no. We are, we are also trying to figure out things. But, um, just working closely with people and the customers, whatever happens. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. All right. I have the next one here from iQt. I probably have butchered this heavily, but it's close, we'll, we'll link it, so all good. Day 105 in Build in Public, that's a lot of days.

I'm continuing to update the to do page, there is always a bug to fix, tell me about it. The closed beta's first round for 40 participants is full, there are only nine spots left for the second round. If you're interested, you can Join at clock. co. Clock. co. I wonder what this is. Let me, let me open it up.

Because I'm curious, who's joining? So, clock is Our age needs a better clock. There has to be a simpler and faster way to plan and track the day. If you're interested in a new clock concept, join the waitlist. It kind of sounds like a productivity app. Yeah. And you're like a super productivity freak. I'm a

Sandra: big fan of productivity apps.

Let me join. How many places

Dan: are left? Let me put my email here one second. This is good. My email there. Yeah. So time management application. You can create your weekly schedules and view your daily activities. This is quite awesome. They could sponsor the show for sure. I mean, I'm down for that. Yeah. What do you, what do you use to manage your apps?

Sandra, do you use something where it's just. Taking it day by day. No, no,

Sandra: no. I have multiple different apps. I have the personal one that are related to work and those ones are just reminding me what I need to do. Then everything is kind of stored in Notion. I don't like Notion, but we use Notion because whatever.

Um, then I'm, you know, big on Notion. And then I use, um, there is this great also clock called Pomondo, Pom, Pom, I'm not sure. Pomodoro? Pomodoro, whatever. And it's pretty much, I dunno, it's a simple, such a simple thing, but it kind of like, um, notifies you when the 45 minutes of your intensive work is done, you know, and I was on Twitter for 45 minutes.

Um, but yeah, I'm, I, I, I love productivity apps, whatever you send to me, I'm so open to trying it out and testing it because, um. It could be that I'm just a very not organized person, you know, as well, and I'm trying my best to figure the things out. But, um, yeah.

Dan: No, no comments. We were one hour late today. I, I'm struggling to not make a joke, but you're definitely organized, uh, of course.

Yeah. All right. Next one by stuff. You want to take it?

Sandra: Oh yes. I love reading stuff. He gives me inspiration for the newsletters by the way. He

Dan: was, yeah, he was there last week too. He really likes this hashtag. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's really into

Sandra: building public. Also, if you have not signed up to our newsletter, please do so because we are trying to be very funny.

Um,

Dan: I'm sorry, we didn't talk about the newsletter. We, we have no idea what we're doing. We have a newsletter, Sandra, and it was like a huge success. I don't even want to know how many subscribers, but last time I checked, we were closing on 50 and I think that's amazing. The reason is that the newsletter was so good, I read it myself, I think five times the first time you wrote it.

And every time I would read it, I would find something something funny in it. It's just the best. We also have it on the website if you want to check the previous editions. Okay, sorry. And that was also today's sponsor. Yeah. Thank you, thank you, uh,

Sandra: Morning Maker Show. Uh, but Steph, Steph is working really hard.

And he said working, big capital letters. Uh, code snippets AI desktop app progress. Fetch GitHub repo. Um, reference file in your index code base. Ask how to implement package into your file. Some UI fixes needed. What would you recommend for the next steps?

Dan: Yeah, so it kind of sounds like he's making a A competitor to.

You, even to VS code or to you, you basically go into code snippets and you have everything you need. You, you point it to your repository and then it can, so, so it's, it's more like co pilot that that's how I, uh. I know the app works, you get code suggestions, you get refactoring, you, you can ask it to, you know, create this and that, but this looks like it's

moving, uh, let me see, there's a video here, it looks like it's moving more towards, uh, a separate app.

It, It might, um, I'm watching the video now, but it might not actually be a text editor though, but it's more like a chat, uh, with your code base, essentially, so you, yeah, that's a very cool concept. So, it's, it's essentially. You do that on a chat GPT anyway, but this one you point to your code base, so it knows all of your context when you ask the questions, and it probably can create new things a lot better because it knows, uh, your code base essentially.

This looks awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Good job, Stef. I'll take the next one from Greg. Yes. Wow, Greg says, ship more. I completely agree with that. Do, do be a happy maker. Use tools you know. My stack is boring. Python, Flask, CouchDB, Redis, Jinja and Tailwind. And then he says, I host this on a VPS and deploy it using Ansible and my own scripts.

It's about shipping, not looking cool with the latest framework. What do you think about that? Hmm. My take, my take is he's completely right. It doesn't really matter what you're using as long as you're productive in it, as long as you have fun doing it, who cares? The customer doesn't care. The customer cares about doing the, the work that They set out to do in the app.

Sandra: Why, why is this even like a discussion thing? Yeah. Other people are working on it. Do they stress about it? Do they put a lot of time and effort into foundation or architecture or?

Dan: Yeah, you know, there's this thing in, in. You, you know it as well and in the development world where you kind of need to, to show how cool you are by picking up the latest and greatest and being, you know, on the, on the bleeding edge and, and saying, Oh, this thing's, you know, 10 percent faster than your thing and therefore is better.

Hmm. And there's a lot of, uh, negativity because of this and people saying, Oh, you're, you know, you're using this or that. Sucks, uh, what are you stuck 10 years ago, but in reality, it doesn't matter. And more often than not, I hope I don't offend anybody, but people that say that they actually don't ship as much.

Uh, and those that do are those that keep their, their technology and they're just productive in it, uh, instead. So, yeah, um, I'm not going to say much more, but. I, I think this is completely right and, and continue to doing what you do, you know, we always have the levels example. He's still using PHP and jQuery.

I believe his app that's making tens of thousands of dollars is one large file where everything's crammed together. And if that's not a proof that it doesn't matter what you build it. And then I don't know what it is.

Sandra: Yeah, yeah. So good job, Greg.

Um, we move to the next

Dan: one. Yeah, I have one by, by Sergio here. It's about domains. Ooh. I'm gonna read it.

Sandra: So Sergio, ooh, I need a cappuccino. I need something.

Dan: Something strong, huh?

Sandra: My startup. com domain is around, uh, 11, 000 euros. How much is yours?

Dan: You know, um, I'm just going to go and buy a couple of domains. Give me a second. So

Sandra: we lost them, ladies and

Dan: gentlemen. I wonder how that's calculated. I'm gonna, after the show, I'm gonna check this out. Yeah, the domain is photorush. com. It's a good one. It's a good one. You know, there's actually, I, I, it's a love and hate thing.

So on, on one hand, good, good for you, you found a nice domain. But on the other hand, every time I look for something and every single domain that I search for is taken by someone that just keeps it. Just in case, just grinds my gears, and I think there should be a rule that if you get a domain like that, you know, like, uh, all nations on earth, they come together, they agree, and if you get a domain and you don't put a website on it in one year, then you should let go of that domain.

That you're not allowed to keep it anymore. Do you agree? I fully agree

Sandra: with that. I'm still on a weird WhatsApp messaging with the guy

Dan: who holds the main I want. Yeah. Oh yeah. The brokers. Yeah, man. And you know, the, the more success you have and you want to get the main, then the more they're going to ask and just, this is ridiculous sums.

I guess you can justify it, but. There's no way to

Sandra: justify it, Dan. Let's not justify it.

Dan: No, okay, fair enough. No, you can justify it as in, okay, I need to pay 100, 000 for a com domain that's short. If, that might, you know, give you, give you a lot of Users that type your domain directly, or, you know, uh, a lot of people that you would otherwise not have as, as visitors or even customers.

So you can justify it as a, as a buyer and say, okay, it's an investment in this brand or, or, or whatever sometimes, but I cannot justify paying 10 for it. And then by selling it for a hundred thousand, it just seems ridiculous. Yeah, it just seems ridiculous, but that, that's a whole business. It's a whole business, so.

Okay, um, let's see, this one here, I didn't read it, um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go blind into this one. Uh, T, the freelancer. He says, these days, a number of people on text Twitter have been saying build in public. As much as I agree with the concept of showcasing your projects, we should also not forget the most of big names build in secret.

Sometimes privacy is key. Do you agree with this, Sandra? No.

Sandra: I mean, no, it's just really hard. Like there, there, if you're going to build like that, you as a person, there needs to be a big background for you, for your team, I don't know who, who is this person and what type of money he has and connections in.

Order to build a great successful product that he can just launch and be like Slack. I don't know. Um, I think holding that idea and that mindset is very hard and it can only like, um, push you backwards.

Dan: Yeah. That's also the thing. Do you, do you think today, do you even have this choice of, of building in stealth mode, whatever you call it, and then launching, if you don't have VC funding, if you don't have.

As you say, a network, a connection, an investor or angel investor. Can you, I think there's so much, this is getting commoditized. There's a lot of people that do things with, uh, do their own SaaS. There are a lot of people doing no code. There's so many products coming out and. If you don't have resources to, to get in front, how, how will you even get to users?

How you, how would you get visible? And the big risk with that is if you do it too late, what, when do you say, okay, now I'm going to show what I'm doing. Is it three months? Is it six months? Is it one year? And then what if. You say it's one year and after one year you put it out there and you realize you've built something that doesn't have customers.

Yeah.

Sandra: Um, again, I don't, the only way to do something like that is if you are coming from, I dunno, a unicorn that was acquired by some company and you have money investment and relationship with the people that you are building the product for, maybe it will work. Um, but. Having that mindset is just wrong for the most of the people.

That's just my personal opinion. I think, um, I don't know, like, even with Clue, it's such a hot market, every single day I get, you know, mentioned some, somewhere, some, someone is building something. And I, my, my standpoint on that is like, please build it. Like, I want you to build it and I want you to make it work because it's not that simple.

You know, so whoever is like, there's so much more that goes into building a product than just like building it in, you know, steel mode or whatever it's called. So, yeah, not

Dan: my cup of tea. What, what do you think about, I want to get a bit into this because there's been a lot of, um, Drama around what do you think about the fact that when you build in public, you, you start sharing maybe some of your strategy or some of your, uh, methods with competitors or, or even, you know, people start making copies of your product.

Is that, is that something you're afraid of? No,

Sandra: I had a call with a competitor, um, and we talked about the marketing and I told them, um, everything I did for Clue, everything I did from the marketing standpoint, um, for Clue. And why I said it's, it was a competitor and I knew it and, and, and, you know, we had a conversation and why I said all of these things because no one can repeat what you can do, you know?

So, um. Copycats or holding the strategies or holding the product, there is so much that goes into building something and I gave them like step by step on what I did and how I market clue, but they didn't do the same thing and they cannot repeat the same thing as well because there is my voice, there is a people.

There is a whole community around Clue and etc. So it's very hard to, um, copy someone. When we are talking about the products, of course, you can, I mean, we can build Slack. There's no problem. Let's do it like in the next two months. Will we achieve the same success that Slack has? Probably not. If you're talking indie products, um, that's, that's kind of like a different discussion.

You know, if, if indie maker is copying another indie maker, that's a little bit problematic because both of the persons are in the same position, you know, and none of them is like reaching the level of. Some crazy growth that you can be like a company. So it's, it's very tricky. Like if you're going to copy someone, copy, I don't know, someone else or a bigger company, or if you want to influence or you have idea about the products, reach out to the person that is building this product, because you guys might have a conversation.

And in this conversation, you will realize that at certain point, um, this. Copy initial copy will kind of separate. You will go into different directions, which is also healthy, but just copy pasting the product, um, it's, it's, it's kind of known and it's easy to recognize these people and, um, I mean, Drama happening just in the past few days.

There's a lot of like people voicing. So it's, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, you, you just get the flag and that's, that's about it.

Dan: Yeah. Um, it, again, when it happens to you, it's, it's not as easy to, to think that way because you know, your, your first reaction is. Negative. Yeah. You're, you're mad. You, it's never, ever nice to see someone copying your product.

And then if you go and you see, Oh, they actually copied my copy too and, and, and my messaging, but you, you gotta, you gotta do what you say and think, you know, they, they don't have, well, yeah, the, the vision, the, the voice, it's completely different.

challenge underneath that you've been solving for months. Yeah, they can, they can copy it, but you're going to continue to do that. You're going to continue to go on, on that path and I don't think they can, they can ever, you know, copy as you evolve the product, that, that's very hard. And most of these people, they tend to give up after a while because it didn't work out.

But I think one of the The symptoms of the way this kind of comes to life and also have a love and hate relationship with this is when people are successful, of course, in this community, we also share, uh, MRR updates sometimes, and, you know, showing there's a lot of customers. And I've, I think that motivates a lot of people, but it also makes people think, well, if I do the exact same thing, I'm also going to make.

amount of money. So let me just do it right now. Let me do the exact same thing. Let's see how they did it. Let's go for their updates and try to essentially do a get, get rich quick, uh, scheme. And you don't realize that arriving to that product, arriving to that user base maybe took years of work, right?

And in the most cases that. It takes a long time to, to be successful. Very few people are, you know, an overnight success and the people that copy think they could do it in a week because they copy your success and it doesn't work that way. It really doesn't.

Sandra: No, no, no. You, you just, um, you will just be known as an asshole that copied someone at their website.

We agree that, um, some, I mean, I'm building the search and search is not something new and, um, There's a lot of people that are doing the search, but they've niched it out, you know, you take the concept, you like some kind of concept and you bring it to a different niche for the people that will use the product totally, maybe different than what someone else is using, you know, and then you make squeezes and try to, you know, build a better product roadmap just for this particular group of the people.

Dan: Yeah. Well, that's also the thing, because. What we're doing as, as solo builders is taking usually a larger successful product, perhaps even by a bigger VC funded company, finding a niche where they can move as fast or they don't care about it, or don't want to, to expand on that. And we do that very, very well.

Right. So I'm completely fine with that. I'm completely fine. That's also how you get innovation. That's also how you get, you know, uh, a lot of new ideas in the space, but that's not the same thing as, as copying, right? You're developing. An area of the product that hasn't been, um, given enough attention.

Yeah. Right. So I'm, I'm totally a fan of that as opposed to, to copying. And this is a small community, right? We all know each other. When you do that, people are gonna, people are gonna see it. Um, the value of, of, of the community is a lot bigger than a one shot at getting, you know, hitting that, that jackpot overnight making.

Some sales. And then what? Because then. You don't have access to this and everyone knows you're, you're not, uh, a decent person, essentially, uh, I think for me, the, the biggest value of being in this community is meeting people, meeting people like you, like, you know, we, we talk to a lot of people regularly, we see their products and then we get, um, we get a lot of opportunities from it and that's so much more important than trying to achieve this overnight success.

And let me tell you, there is no such thing as an overnight success. This thing is. Yeah. a lot of work and you need to do it month after month after month and the more you do it the better you get at it. I don't believe you can just come and do your first thing and and then that's it you you have your you have your business, you don't have to do anything again.

People that, that do that don't tend to last very long in the space.

Sandra: I fully agree. You said this very nicely.

Dan: Yeah. A lot of, a lot of emotion in this, but it's because I have this feeling that in the past couple of weeks, there's been a lot of this going around. And I, I really like this community to be positive and to be helpful to each other because it's so small.

And when I see a lot of this, it's just, it's just starting to get to me and I, I don't know this community to be this way, you know?

Sandra: Yeah, but I think we have formed this also like a nice support system for the people that have noticed these things to be open and loud about it. And there's many of us that are supporting and recognizing that these things are happening as well.

So. Yeah. It's a very important question that it needs to, um, we need to talk about it more often.

Dan: Yeah. I agree. Okay. Very, very interesting subject. We took over the show. I think we should go full, full circle and, and read the last update here. This is how we started. Winter depression. Do you want to take the Yes, please.

Go ahead.

Sandra: Fraser. Fraser. Fraser. Deans. Okay. Winter light sucks. I'm finding myself lower energy, sleep, sleeping longer and easily losing motivation. Meaningness has a fantastic post on why and how you should be getting more light into your gray days. Going to order my first corns.

Dan: I don't know what corns are, but I was listening to a podcast many years ago.

There's a, there's an article about light where. Someone was saying there's like a, a corn light, which is essentially a light that's very bright that you would put in your garage. I don't know if that's what he means, but, uh, something in that direction. I know a lot of people have these lights that simulate sunrise.

Have you heard about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Sandra: yeah. I've had therapy.

Dan: Yeah, so I have never tried it, but maybe I should. Maybe I wouldn't be so, so, so down by February if I had one of these flights. Um, I have,

Sandra: I have a friend, she has one at home. Um, she still goes into winter depression, so it's just, um, losing

Dan: no point.

My, don't even try. You, you have no chance.

Sandra: Pick it and fly.

Dan: Well, on that bombshell and great advice, I think it's time to, to close down. I, I just want to, to mention one idea that we had and maybe people can, can pitch in with it. I was thinking we should do maybe one, one comment or one speaker that we pick.

Like we, we just have, we have a lot of different topics, but then we can have. someone that joins the show and, and, and write something actually come in and, and, you know, tell us, uh, tell us what they think about some of the topics, but we just pick one, you know, the, the very best one. I just pitched this to you, Sandra.

What do you think about it?

Sandra: I fully agree with you. Let's

Dan: do it. Yeah, we'll do it next time. We'll do it next time. Okay. Thank you. Now. Oh, sorry. Let's do it now. So. you know, and people are like smashing their keyboards right now, posting comments, pick mine, pick mine. Okay. Um, there's Matias. He's been, uh, he's been very active in the comments.

I love that. Um, I have the best comment. It's, it's ready. I'm going to read it. It's, it's for you, Sandra. He says, uh, today I learned that Sandra doesn't like notion, uh, beef incoming. Oh, you got yourself a lot of enemies by not liking notion because the people that do like it, they love it.

Sandra: Don't get me wrong.

I love notion.

Dan: Yeah. Now that you know, everyone's going to come after you.

Sandra: Uh, I'm just scared of it.

Dan: I know. There you go. You heard it here first. Um, Sandra is scared of, of a piece of software. Yeah. I hope it doesn't give you nightmares. I really do.

Alrighty, let's wrap it up. Thank you so much. Everyone that joined, please check out morningmakershow.com. Sign up for the newsletter. We're going to do one a week and we're going to round up updates and building public, maybe, you know, just give you a brief overview of what we talked about, updates about, you know, the latest and greatest, and maybe a little bit of drama too.

And last but not least, some updates from Sandra's mom, which is mentioned in the newsletter a couple of times. Always,

Sandra: always fun. She has no idea how important part of this

Dan: community she is. Yeah. She's, she's been such a pillar in the community. Maybe she'll join the show one day when we reach a thousand subscribers.

She could join the show. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much, everyone. Yeah. Um, I will. I will see you Friday and have a amazing week and good luck to everyone building in public. Thank

Sandra: you so much. See you.

Dan: Bye. Bye.

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