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Episode 30 of Morning Maker Show: Almost productive and out of our comfort zones

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    Morning Maker Show


In this episode, Dan and Sandra discuss the trials and tribulations of video marketing, the joys of clearing up to-do lists, and the curious case of LinkedIn happiness. As they delve into the world of B2B, they question their control over strategies and ponder the depths of 𝕏 algorithm.

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Dan: They sat down and they thought, we know the product we know the target group and they looked at existing products and this is exactly what they decided. We're going to build something that people love because they hate everything else essentially, right?

and they pulled it off and then linear is a huge success as far as I know, or was, I guess it is, don't say

Sandra: was, Nokia was...

Dan: Good morning.

Sandra: Good morning, Dan.

Dan: How are you this fine morning Sandra?

Sandra: Um,

Oh my God, why it takes always like whenever someone asks me, how are you? It always takes so much time and I need to answer to you like how I am. I'm feeling pretty good. Um, the week is ending. The, the things are being done. Um, yes. It was a productive week? It was, it was very productive week. Yes. I think it was more like clearing up things week.

Dan: How do you define a productive week in your

Sandra: mind? Um, productive, productive week. Okay. Well, the things from the to do list, most of them are kind of done. The ones that are not done are, I can understand what I need to do. Next with them, so it's not unclear.

Dan: Got it. So it's just a piece of mind. Yeah. Then it's, yeah.


Exploring the World of Video Content Creation

Dan: And you've made, and you've made a video.

Sandra: Don't ask me about that. I'm still cringing a little bit but I have explained in people in comments that if I am aware that it's cringe, it's not that cringe. But if I think it's really good and then it's cringe, then it's really bad.

Dan: I see. Well, I thought it's a very good video and it was quite funny at the end as well. And I also learned a few cool tricks, so I think it's good as long as it doesn't take you a lot to do it. Does it take you a lot to make the video?

Stepping Out of the Comfort Zone with Marketing Strategies

Sandra: No, as I said, we have now a marketing person in Klu and she brought a totally different perspective and I'm just like really enjoying this and also in the same time I'm hating it because she's, she's pushing different boundaries and I really like it and respect that and it's also putting me in the position where I have to do things that I didn't do.

Um, but yeah.

Dan: So you're, you're out of your comfort zone, essentially. Oh, for sure,

Sandra: for sure. I'm someone who doesn't like like, um, video marketing in general, because it does require time and then you have to have the right channels to push it. And in this case, like, You also have to build channels, but she has a vision and she's pretty good.

So I'm quite comfortable, comfortable and I'm trusting her.

Dan: Are you going to build up your YouTube channel?

Sandra: Well, it seems like it. I don't know. I have to check what is,

Dan: what is written in the strategy. Oh my God. You lost control completely. What are you doing?

Sandra: No, no,

Dan: but it's good. It's good. Yeah. Well, I wish you the best of luck. I liked the video. I think you should, uh, you should keep doing them. I think. X as a channel is maybe not the best, but

Sandra: yeah,

Dan: me wrong. I just, yeah, I think people don't go with this mindset of spending a lot of time on X. Like they, they just scroll furiously like this, comment that and move on.

And there's very few that stay on a post and, you know.

Sandra: Yeah. Yeah.

Embracing LinkedIn?! and YouTube

Sandra: I agree with you, but I mean, I don't think that this type of the content is even, um, useful for X or it should target anyone from X. If you know what I mean, um, I think the strategy for these videos, um, okay. I'm embarrassed even to say this, but LinkedIn and YouTube.

Dan: Thank you everyone for joining us on the show. We will see you.

Sandra: But, um, yeah, so, you know, Klu is going in that direction of like companies and that. Yeah,

Dan: more B2B.

Sandra: Yeah, yeah. And the idea is to kind of like be cringy on a LinkedIn level of happiness. How can I explain to you this?

Dan: Yeah, yeah. Well, the bar is quite low if you put LinkedIn into the mix. So that's good.

Well, I wish you the best of luck. It looked very good. Uh, people, you Put, uh, put your video in the comments so more people can enjoy this wonderful content and don't laugh. It was good. I really liked it. It was, if

Sandra: you say one more time, it was good. I'm really going to not believe you.

Dan: It was good. I tried, I tried.

I couldn't help myself, but, uh, we're not doing videos in this show of ours. We're doing something much more interesting and that is seeing what people were building, getting their exciting updates. Do you want to open up with the first one, Sandra? Do me the honor, please.

Sandra: No problem.

Showcasing Community Projects: From Animation to Web Scraping

Sandra: Rodrigo.

Implementing text animation.

With framer motion is so fun, it should be illegal, hashtag building public.

Dan: And we said, there's no video and we jumped straight into a video. That's quite funny. So, well, let, let's explain to Anu. There's a video where there is a chart and The Rodrigo is selecting a portion of the chart and then the, the time sort of flies in as he's selecting it.

It looks very smooth, like butter smooth.

Sandra: I'm sorry. I don't get it.

Dan: You don't get what, what the animation is. I don't

Sandra: get the video. What's happening. Yeah.

Dan: So as you're selecting the time of the day updates pretty much. So he's going from 6 PM to. Yeah. 12 p. m. And it's just a nice way to show how the time is going by. That's it. It's a micro interaction, right?

It's not, it's not really changing the, the fact that you're selecting a bit of a chart, right?

Sandra: Now, as a video professional, since today, um, it, it's always nice to see a little bit like

Dan: Right,

Sandra: right.

Dan: The problem is there is no further context in the comments because we've collectively decided to bow in front of the X algorithm and not put links anymore because then people don't get reach and why should you even post on this website if you don't get reach? There is no point to post at all. So the first comment is this looks so good.

The second one. The whole animation is fire and you probably can guess the rest of the hundred comments, which are the exact same. No one's saying what this is, what it does. Who cares? It's a nice animation.

Sandra: Yeah. Yeah. No need for links.

Dan: I like it. Good job, Rodrigo. I would like to know the context. I completely agree.

And maybe just, just a little bit of a description could work. I mean, even without the link. What this is doing could be cool, huh?

Sandra: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Visual Web Scraper

Dan: All right. Let me take the next one by Arthur. He's saying.

I've been working on a visual web scraper. So he has a sneak preview where he's extracting a list of Amazon products into a table.

And what he's doing is he's going on amazon. com, sort of hovering with his mouse over some shoes, then pressing on the shoes, telling it, okay, this is an image, this is the text. And then. It scrapes it, it is freaking awesome. This is cool. This is very cool. We can finally get some product hunt data that they don't give to us, regarding the bots and the comments.

This is such a, you know, you know, it's a good product when I get so excited and I go into product mode, it's like, Oh, we could build this and that and this. Yeah. Okay, Arthur

Sandra: did something to, to Dan today, that's for sure.

Dan: Yeah. You're

Sandra: going to do a lot of things during the weekend, huh?

Dan: I really like, I don't know if it's ready or if it's just a proof of concept.

Kind of looks like a proof of concept. There's no link, so we don't know, of course. Um, it might just be a proof of concept, but. It just goes to show that even in, you know, scraping and, and like a industry where there's hundreds and hundreds of options and solutions, there's still a way to twist around and to, I think this could be fairly successful if, if the scraping part works well, it could be very accessible to non technical people.

Cause usually when you scrape, you eventually hit some sort of. Technical, uh, issue, right? Yeah. If it does, why you just point and click around that could open up to an entire new market.

Sandra: Yeah. I imagine use cases you could build from it.

Dan: Yeah. Do you imagine, um, you know, uh, Harini, she's making BuildShip where you can connect the different APIs and make small apps.

Imagine this scraping thing as part of that workflow where you maybe scrape something and then you have an AI chat on top of it. So you can make a small chat up scraping Amazon and asking, you know, what are the best shoes and I don't know, this size or, or whatnot, and you can make a small shopping app, for example, and so on and so forth.

So. I'm seeing lots of possibilities. Very cool work.

Sandra: Yeah. And I love how you have just combined two products that could totally work together. You just gave me an idea for the Hunted.Space blog. I need to write this down.

Dan: Yeah. You combine

Sandra: products from the community, actually.

Dan: Yeah, that's a good idea.

That's a good idea. Yeah. How did the Hunted.Space blog even come into existence? Like one day, we just had it. Can you, can you remind me?

Sandra: Well, usually with you and me, everything kind of is like one day thing. Oh, we could do this and we actually do it. But I think it was before we launched.

Dan: How did we

Sandra: put the blog? What's wrong with us?

Dan: I just remember working late at night and you asking me, did you push the blogs yet? And I think there was like some sort of understanding we had that we need to push the blogs for the launch. And, but that was like the best move ever, because It increased our retention.

So you were telling me about the post hoc data and you said, it doesn't make sense. You have a lot, a lot of retention. Why do we have retention? Why are people coming back to their launches? And it turns out they just come back to the blog.

Sandra: Good job, Dan. Good job. We did it good.

Dan: But one thing I still want to do, and actually if the listeners have any Any comments for us?

That would be cool.

Innovative Competition Ideas for Startups

Dan: We wanted to have this twist on launching where you came up with the idea, Sandra, where different startups or indie products can compete for, let's say, a thousand dollars. And instead of doing upvotes and comments and so on, we would have a jury. So three to five people that are some somewhat Um, either well known or they're experts in, in, in the field or experts in a particular part of the field, maybe experts in design or so on.

And then it would be a one week competition. You would pay an entry fee and then you would get a chance to win this. But every day you would get a challenge that you need to build in public, right?

Sandra: Yes. And every day the jury would, um, give points based on that challenge. And then from our side, we would update the ranking list based on the points that jury gave.

Dan: So pretty much we ditched the upvotes. We ditched the, the comments, but we still. We still encourage building in public and, and, you know, getting exposure for this and we still give them a chance to, to come back to see, you know, what their, their score is in a given day. And then the score progresses and then they get, you know, uh, Closer to, I don't know, is it the week that we said,

Sandra: yeah,

Dan: yeah.

So they get closer to the end of the week and then, you know, maybe it's going to be top three fighting for, for the grand prize, which is, let's say, 1000 euros. I really like to try that. That's, that could be one of the, the crazy ideas that we do in a day.

Sandra: I really like it and I also think it's going to be interesting because even during those seven days, each day there is a challenge and then jury gives points.

Um, even if you are losing badly on the last day, you could still win,

you know?

Dan: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Sandra: So why aren't we doing it? Why are we not doing it? I don't know. Should we do it? Should we do it this weekend? Should we set up everything and then run it on Monday and start?

Dan: Can someone please stop

Sandra: us?

Dan: Someone please say stop if this is a bad idea. But

Sandra: I like the idea. I'm sick of upvotes.

I'm sick of, um, you know,

Dan: bots.

Sandra: checking out what's wrong, bots, and all of these things. I think if we have a nice jury, people from a community, um, someone who is, you know, has a moral compass, I think that would be nice. And, you know, I think it could work. I think it could also motivate makers that would go into challenge because I usually, I mean, we tend to read a lot of posts, okay, from next week, I'm going to do marketing from next week.

I'm going to do this. Well, actually the week that the week has come, you know, to do this thing. So.

Dan: But marketing is always. Always next week. You want to take the next update? If you are running for a thousand

Sandra: euros, it's going to be.

Dan: Please take the next update.

The Power of User Feedback in Product Development

Sandra: Gabriel

Featuring early users on my landing page, planning to link four more products, I'll be adding early users who are using features, votes.

Here, where is the link Dan, I can't.

Dan: Features. vote. I found it from my own investigation.

Sandra: Listen to your users, know what to build next. Let your users post and vote on features they want, driving your product's growth with precision and clarity. Sounds interesting.

Dan: Yeah. What do you think about the concept?

Sandra: Um, I think we are using one app that does something similar, what it's called. Candy, something candy, um, and it looks like Trello boards or whatever, something similar to the design, um, Gabriel has, and then people can upvote the next features.

Dan: And how do you prioritize this with internal development or is that like combined?

How do you choose to build something for a user versus whatever you think is important to build right now?

Sandra: Well, it depends if the user is. Paying

Dan: or? Money, money. If there's money, then the choice is very easy. Yeah. But this looks very cool. So, and what do you think about putting the, the first customer? So it's essentially brand logos and links to, to those brands.

I think that's a good idea.

Sandra: Always.

Dan: Yeah. I think especially this, this is a B2B, right? It has to be for the most part anyway. This looks like the only kind of social proof you can start with for a while. It's harder to get individual reviews, but then. Once you get these people, maybe you can get the CEO of the company or CTO to say, okay, this has revolutionized our development, but it's a little bit harder, in my opinion, to, to get the testimonials.

When you're doing B2B, maybe I'm wrong. What do you think

Sandra: for indie makers? It depends. It all depends who, who you are reaching and working from companies and in which, um, levels they are in the company. As well.

So it is hard.

Dan: Yeah. With indie makers, it's very easy to get those. If you, I've seen this done in real time. So on launch day, basically, I think Mark Lou did this where the reviews were essentially comments to the launch tweet or comments on product hunt. And then in real time, he would add them to the website and kind of make more testimonials.

And it doesn't need to be more than that, but I'm also thinking if you're doing B2B, then a person on the internet saying this is a cool product is maybe not as strong as having a company using it, if you know what I mean.

Sandra: Yeah. Yeah. But I'm kind of like a little bit. Over the things that people put on the website.

I don't know how much that influence me anymore, at least. When it comes to buying and trying new products, what I've seen that kind of influence my buying process is when someone suggests the product to me, especially the people I trust with. And that tend to work for me the best. Um, probably because I'm coming from marketing side and I do understand.

Um, how you can get these testimonials and, you know, reviews and things like that. So, uh, you know, I made a full circle. So I came back to that initial marketing where it's like, I always want to say mouth to mouth. Well, that

Dan: would be something else. How did you get, how did you get your first testimonials?

Do you still remember?

Sandra: Uh, by asking people.

Dan: Yeah.

Sandra: It's always

Dan: that. Initially that was like your, right after launch, you jumped on the call with your users and essentially asked for feedback and also testimonials, right?

Sandra: Yeah. April and May, 2023 was very crazy for Klu.

Evolving Product Feedback and Sales Strategy

Sandra: so.

Dan: And at what point is it? Is it important to get more of those?

Like you've actually evolved the product quite a lot. Are they still, you know, current or do you need to go back now to users and kind of get more of them? I actually, I don't, I

Sandra: don't even. Yeah, I don't even think about that at this point anymore. For me, it's now more about updating like the decks I have for the customers and clarifying use cases and building from there.

And I don't want to, like, I don't want Klu to become this sales oriented company. I want it to be more product led growth. But, um, I think at these stages where we are, it's much easier to go into like sales mode as well. So

Dan: that's interesting because in B2B you, you can set up a sales team and make these larger deals, like bigger contracts with perhaps certain development included as well.

Right. Wouldn't you want to try that at some point?

Sandra: What do you mean?

Dan: So you can, for example, go to a company with a, a sales team, present the product, and then say we can do a Oh, you mean

Sandra: outsiders?

Dan: Mm-Hmm, . And then, you know, you wouldn't have your regular pricing, but you would price, maybe this is an enterprise even.

Right. And then you would price it that, you know, a hundred thousand euros per year for the entire company. You know, regardless of how many users they have. Like a, a custom contract like that.

Sandra: Yeah, but I don't think we are still at that stage. We are, you know, it's, it's, we are still far away from that. I'm still trying to tackle themes.

In companies, because if you're going to deploy the product like that, it needs to be quite complex and you're going to go through different stages and phases of the teams and approvals and security issues. And the, you know, rather than just going through the teams.

Dan: I agree. And you need to have development ready to, or capacity, right?

Yeah. Yeah. To accommodate this. So Yeah. Makes sense. All right. Do you want to take the next one, Sandra?

The MVP Debate: Building Products People Love

Sandra: Amay design.

I don't believe in MVPs. Why would you want to build a minimum, minimal viable, viable, viable. Build a product people love, build a product people love. Let's do it.

It sounds really nice. Like, Amay, I agree with you. You should just build the products people love, but getting to the point of having a product people love is really hard.

Dan: Yeah, I completely agree. I like The fact that you don't think of it as something that you can throw away. I like that idea, but at the same time, what is the chance that the thing that you're going to build is actually going to be the correct thing?

And what if you tried to build something that people love, but the people that you have in mind don't exist. Right. So I think that the whole point of the MVP is to avoid that and to sort of adjust the project early before you've invested so much into it.

Sandra: Yeah, I fully agree. I mean, If you have a clear use case and people you are building the product for, and especially if that somehow manages to combine with your work history, so you have a knowledge of the industry too, you might be able to build something and immediately kind of like ship it in.

To someone, um, but even from there you can build on top of it. I think the only issue which I have is like how much time it will take for you. To build it. And when, when will you feel ready to ship it as well? If you, if you're like thinking that big in the sense of let's build a product that people love, you know, like it's crazy.

That's the only fear I would have.

Dan: I would like to say it in a nice way, but I think this is also ego thing where you think, you know, better than the people that you're building for.

And to some extent, of course you can. Build things in a different way. Like we saw the scraper before, right? When you think, Oh, I have this different approach to building this, but that doesn't work all the way because at some point you need to talk to people. And if they say, I can't use this, it's not good for me.

And you still say, well, I'm building something. That you're going to love, just wait for it, you know, uh, that's not going to work out. There are some good examples though. So I think the best one that comes to mind is linear. Have you used it?

Sandra: A Finnish company.

Dan: Finnish company, of course. And that's when you think.

Yeah. What did they do? They sat down and they thought, we, we know the product when we know the target group and they're, they looked at existing products and this is exactly what they decided. We're going to build something that people love because they hate everything else essentially, right? Uh, or more or less, I think there's some people that like Trello for this kind of stuff.

So then they just set on to build the best possible. Version of that and they had the skills to do it as well, but they also had the money to do it, I guess, eventually, and they pulled it off and then linear is a huge success as far as I know, or was, I guess it is, don't say

Sandra: was, Nokia was,

Dan: yeah. So what do you think about that approach is, is that. Is that something that you think can be easily be easily be reproduced? Because my, my impression is that, you know, there's just such a small percentage of people that could pull that off. And it's usually a large team. It's not, it's not like a large funded team that could do such a thing.

Sandra: Oh, for sure. For sure. That's very true. Like, I mean, I can also tell you from my own experience, we made multiple mistakes. If we didn't have funding, we would like be done. Um, last year, that's, I mean, but it's very true. Like you can't, like, if you're not in the position where you are able to make mistakes, it's very hard to keep on going.

So just, you know, just if you're going to like, for me, it's very important, even when we are reading these, um, updates to keep things. Straight. Um, to make sure. I just also want to make sure that people that are listening to this and building their own stuff don't get into that mindset as well and then just lose time and money, um, into just building things, thinking it's useful for people that they have in mind, but they haven't actually, um, Discussed or experienced the problem with them.


Dan: that's a bit of a survival bias because you look at linear and you say, Oh, they could do it. So I could do it too. But what percentage of companies that attempt us do it and what percentage burned through hundreds of thousands or millions and fail anyway, because they didn't have the iterative approach where you essentially continuously align to customer needs and to the market and change your positioning.


The Cost of New Features and the MVP Approach

Dan: There is, I'll tell you one

Sandra: secret. Oh, sorry. I wanted to just say one secret. Now, I don't know, can I say this? Probably not, but okay. Just whisper it. I will whisper it. When we, when we talk about new feature in Klu, the first thing I do is calculate how much that's going to cost me. And that pretty much means, you know, you, you, you calculate by the salaries of the people and the amount of time they will spend on it.

Okay. And the last time I did it, it was 20 something thousand euros. Don't you think that's crazy?

Dan: I think that's completely crazy.

Sandra: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. So that's easy to say yes or no. If you have those numbers. Yeah.

Sandra: So, so, so I'm trying to say that if you put the numbers on the table and then you're like, okay, if I spend this amount of time building this and I don't have already customers or users waiting for it, why am I doing it?

It's too big of a risk you're going to take.

Dan: Right, right. That was basically what I was getting at. That the, the risk of doing something that quote, people love is a lot higher than doing the MVP and trying to adjust it and or throw it out. If you see, okay, that's fine. This didn't really go anywhere in the time I had.

So then what did you lose? You didn't lose that much, but if you're spent two years or I don't know what amount of money on it, then, , might also be harder to give up on it. And you, you end up sinking even more. Energy and money, because you cannot give up on it now you've spent two years, right?

Sandra: Yeah.

Dan: It's quite tricky.

Sandra: Yeah. I like MVPs. I'm all about it.

The Importance of Community Support and Personal Well-being

Dan: But speaking about tricky and hard times, we had a few conversations about this, but Elias Stråvik, he's saying

Some personal news. Was really tough, both personally and professionally. It's super fun to push hard, but for me, the pressure got too much when a perfect storm happened.

I still have my B2B startup with my co founder and I still have my family and my 19 month old boy launching multiple indie projects in parallel with paying customers just got too much for me when something happened. My plan is to take a step back and avoid burning out and back, get back at it when I'm, when I've built a better foundation for myself to go in.

All in on indie hacking. So this is like a very healthy thing to do when you recognize that it's basically getting too hard instead of just saying, I'll shrug it off and continue, but taking a step back and taking care of yourself and the family and so on. I don't think we talk enough about these kinds of things.

Like we were discussing that a lot of the people that we see around, you know, for maybe a few months at a time, at some point they disappear. Have you noticed this?

Sandra: Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: And you don't know why, but a lot of the times is some sort of hardship like this, or they burn out or, you know, and you just don't know, even you, I think you've, you know, You've, you've, uh, got in touch with some people.

I did too this week, I DM'd a lot of people and some of them have said, you know, it's so nice that you've messaged me, like I'm going through, through some difficult moments and just like seeing a message of encouragement is, is worth a lot at this time when things are dark.

Sandra: Yeah. Yeah. And. We definitely don't talk enough about it and I think we should, and I think we also should say that it's totally okay to take the time off as much as you need.

Um, there is always a space to come back. I think Dan and I will always be here and once you're back, we'll send that message to others. But, um, it's really important also to recognize that you need to stop and not push yourself. into more and more, um, pressure. And, you know, and I'm talking this while I was sick on Tuesday and I put so much pressure on myself to continue and ignore it totally.

So, you know, it's actually really nice to read. People's or like that are sharing these posts because you feel kind of comfortable more within your own skin when it's time to kind of stop and be like, okay, slow down, like, there's, there's no need to rush anywhere. Um,

Dan: yeah, you definitely pushed it against my advice.

Let me, everyone should know. I told you to slow down. And what did you do? You got a Red Bull and pushed it. Two times harder. Yeah. Yeah. Nice

Sandra: job. It's not healthy. It's not healthy. I think the issue is like, this thing, what we are doing does make us happy, you know, but it's also making us very tired. Right.

Dan: Right.

Sandra: And. It's very hard to find the balance and the right combination of that. I'm looking at Dan drinking his Red Bull.

Dan: Yeah, I was thinking today I, I was forced to do some things that I didn't want. And there's always days like that. And I wasn't forced because Okay. Should I tell you what I was first?

I was first to do a couple of things, but one thing out of the blue was, uh, and I tweeted earlier that the checkout displayed some sort of, uh, warning that this website might be a scam or something along those lines. And that's not a thing I can leave and I have to look at it because pretty much all my checkouts are done the same way.

And I was really looking forward to doing something else, but then I had to do this and I wasn't too fun to look into it. Um, eventually, actually, uh, Ilias, I think he's really, he's listening. He basically. Gave me the, the solution, which was to set up a custom domain for the checkout. That seems to have solved it.

But the point is, I think today I should have taken the day off, but I couldn't. And those are the tough days where I don't want to do this, where I want to work on something that's, that's fun. And then you have this random thing that. Pops up and you cannot say no to it. You know what I mean?

Sandra: Yeah. Yeah.

You have to finish it.

Dan: So those are how to

Sandra: balance that. I have, I have no Klu how to balance that.

Dan: Yeah.

So the next best thing is having a place where you can talk about it. Apparently our show is like our, also our therapy session where we say everything that, um, is on our mind, but a lot of people maybe don't have that. I think we do that in the Morning Maker Show community as well in the, in the weekly meetups where people just talk about, you know, okay, this is difficult or, um, you know, I don't like really feel like putting more time on this.

It seems like. It's not going that well and that's a great way to get past these moments just to talk about it with someone and the problem is If you talk to your friends and so on, a lot of them, they, they might not really get it, or they might have a different perspective and you basically not getting much out of it.

So connecting with people that have the same issue, there's something special about that.

Sandra: For sure. For sure. And I think when we take a look like the whole Twitter or the community on Twitter, it's quite big and wide and sometimes in, and there's so many people and you still sometimes can feel alone, but then if you are able to kind of not narrow that down or filter the people, um, into some group, like we have it on Discord at least, um, it's much easier to express yourself and maybe people in this group will not have a solution, but maybe they will know someone who can help you, you know.

So that's also one of the ways how to kind of pull yourself from this whole Twitter madness, but still stay in touch, um, and being able to express yourself somewhere at least.

Dan: And

Sandra: that's, that's why I'm like actually quite happy that we are talking and building. I, I mean, last night I wrote that we don't talk enough about the Discord and the Morning Maker show, but I'm quite happy that we do have it.

And I'm quite happy that hopefully we will talk more about it because it is such a nice way to stay in touch. With people and you mentioned at the beginning that you sent messages and I did it last last night as well because I've noticed few people not being active and I mean active, whatever, but, um, I just wanted to know what's happening.

Are you okay? Can we help you somehow or, you know, so then getting a response from them just knowing that, hey, I'm going through something or like, you know, it's nice to know, or maybe they also feel better that, um, you know, People do think about them and you know,

Dan: yeah, that was one of the best, not ideas, but the best thing that I could have done was to get in touch with, with people that I've admired.

And I know what they're building and I've been, you know, following maybe not, you know, strictly, but I've seen them over the months now going for years, I guess, and just reaching out and saying, you know, I like what you do. That was such a. It was emotional for me as well, because then you, it's not easy to say that to a person because you don't do it that often, you know, and some people even said, is this an automated message?

You know, they couldn't believe it. And it took a lot of energy, took a lot of time. I mean, but I don't want to Complain, don't want to come off it. I loved it. And I also got a lot back from it because, you know, most people were actually getting back and saying, Hey, I also wanted to say the same, you know, but no one does it because we're busy.

We're, we're caught up in, in these things, but I recommend this to everyone. If you've been, you know, following along some, some people and you like them and maybe you've never ever interacted directly and message them. It's a great exercise to do that and to connect and to just tell them it doesn't take, you know, You don't need to make a huge text or anything.

Just, I like what you do. I think, you know, the, the progress is great on this product or whatever you've noticed, you know, make it from the heart, um, and you're going to get a lot out of it, a lot of energy, but also I think the, the people on the other side will, will maybe go through a tough moment easier because you've just spent five minutes sending a message to them.

Sandra: I fully agree with you. I fully, I think we should kind of take care of each other more.

Dan: Yeah. Oh, it's so nicely said. That's so sweet.

Sandra: Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: I want to take the last update before we go into the weekend. Um, this is

Sandra: already the last update. Wow.

Dan: Okay. Okay. We can take, well, it's supposed to be half an hour and we're 15 minutes over time.

Sandra: This went really fast. I'm sorry. Okay. The last update to go.

Dan: We could, we could, we could do two if you want, but I think this is, this is a, this is a cool one that I found. Yeah. So. Igor aka Momentum. He's basically one with his product Momentum.

Uh, do it in public season two is coming. If you've solved the tough problem of earning the internet money, I love this.

And you want to help the community, then you are just awesome. I invite you to join my show as a guest. So. Do it in public. I've been in season one. It feels like forever ago. I think this is completely different, but Igor has an interview with you and he asks you uncomfortable questions. Sometimes he draws a doodle of your face.

That's great. Uh, and other times, you know, you end up playing games, maybe, you know, that can go in any direction. Uh, I'm, I'm super excited about this. I'm super excited. And actually. Everyone, you know, doing these types of interviews has my full respect and admiration because it takes so much work to cut an interview and to do video.

It's great. And then we get to meet people, you know, we get to hear about them. Igor is putting all the hard work and we just get the benefits. So Igor.

Sandra: I'm super happy to see Igor back. Um, there was a time when he was off and I actually really missed that whole vibe, Igor momentum, Paralect, everything that they were giving, but Lera back and it's nice to see them.

Dan: Yeah. That's what I was speaking about. The same thing that, you know, there's tougher times and then you don't feel like. Or I think he had this crazy streak of being, I don't know how many hundreds of days tweeting every day. And then he, he broke it and maybe he, he was also feeling a bit bad from what I hear.

You know, he can tell you more about that, but I've missed, uh, you know, I, I felt like, okay, what, what's going on with Igor? I need to check out his profile. And then actually at the time I did DM him and, um, the same, the same thing. Okay. Um, it's always appreciated to receive, you know, some, some love from the community, hard time or not.

It's still good. So this looks super awesome. I can't wait to see the interviews.

Closing Thoughts and Encouragement

Dan: But for now, it is time for Sandra to close off the show. Have you prepared for today? Have you prepared for it? Do you want me to close it? I can do it if you want.

Sandra: Yes, you're so smooth in it.

Dan: Okay. Okay. Give me five seconds. So thank you very much, every one of you for tuning in.

We had such a blast today and talking about good things and bad things. We love you all. We hope to see you again on Monday. Past episodes are available on morningmakershow. com, on Spotify and Apple Podcasts as well. And if you want a community where people help each other out and, you know, just pick themselves up or, or just give you some, some feedback, if you want, then consider joining the Morning Makershow community.

And of course, sign up to the best newsletter in the world. That is the Morning Maker Show newsletter. Sandra, do you have something coming out? I wanted to say tomorrow.

Sandra: Um, yeah, it, you said it really, really well. Um, I would just add, if you do have a maker in mind and you haven't heard from him in a long time, shoot the message, um, check out on them, send some love.

And let's go into nice weekend.

Dan: Let's do it. Have an awesome weekend, everybody. See you Monday. Bye.

Sandra: See you. Bye.

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