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Episode 22 of Morning Maker Show: Dagobert quit his job. Here are the next steps.

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    Morning Maker Show


Join Dan, Sandra & Dago as they discuss the challenges of quitting a job to go full-time indie, viral fame, the dangers of burnout, as well as the power of authenticity in content creation.
See the highs and lows of online presence (with a dose of humor and heart), and get tips on finding stability in an unstable startup world.
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Dagobert: I'm so new to Twitter. I don't know where to go. So wait.

Dan: Let me see. Yeah. It used to be with a bird before, like the, but now

Dagobert: it's like these two. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's what it is. Okay.

Sandra: you took over the whole internet with it

Dagobert: Thank you for helping an old guy out.

Dagobert: the beautiful thing I gotta say is that when I was just pressuring myself to get viral every day, because whatever I do, I will pressure myself to get viral. I cannot escape this. This is my kind of like always thinking of that. But anyway, when you tweet something that is just like, okay, this is a cool idea.

I'm going to post this and it's just because you want likes or you want engagement. If you fail, to be honest, it feels like shit. But what I noticed is when I share something that's really in my heart, even if I get like one like, I'm so happy because I feel like somebody sees me.

Dan: Good morning to our dear friend Dago he's, he's joining us coming back from the dead, people say.

Dagobert: Yeah. Yeah. Hi guys.

Dan: How's it going Dago?

Dagobert: Well, it's okay. I'm just back from my job.

Cause like, it's not the morning for me. It's like six 30 evening and. But it's cool because, you know I gave my two weeks notice. I mean, what's supposed to be a two weeks notice. And so I have a couple of weeks left and I basically, I'm done with everything as of this evening. And so I feel less guilty about thinking about building projects again.

So yeah, doing better and better, you know. Coming back into the living, as you said.

Dan: Will you have the energy to, to already start on something in the weekend or is that you're, you're taking it slow?

Dagobert: No, I kind of like learned that the weekend should be about resting because I used to not do that for so long that eventually it kind of like caught up with me.

So I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to rest and also like, I'm in my new place, so I have to do some things, you know, to kind of like, you know, with furniture and shit. So it's a good way of like not working during the weekend. Yeah, I fully

Sandra: agree with you. I hate working during the weekends.

Dagobert: It's because we're all Europeans.

They are no better. It's in our blood. Oh,

Dan: you don't, don't start that, please. It's a very hot topic. Yeah, it's too

Dagobert: early

Dan: in this conversation. Yeah, we had this whole thing with Europe is going to shit and, you know, it's Asia's the best and, you know, heated arguments on both sides.

Sandra: Well, my take on that is that Finland is the best country ever, the happiest one, at least.

So come here.

Dan: I'm on my way, Sandra. Can you please do something with the global warming so it gets a bit nicer with the weather? Hey,

Sandra: the global warming in Finland is quite good and pleasant, actually. We finally can go to the beach during the summer and take some, um, you know, so I don't complain.

Dagobert: That's so funny. Like when people talk about global warming, like it's all about averages.

So like some people are going to be way fucked and some people are going to have nicer weather. And like, you know, it's not something we think about and it's kind of like, I think pretty, it's kind of not evil, but it's like very cool that some people are going to get lucky and some are not. But, you know, it's kind of like with business sometimes.

I don't know. That was just like the thought.

Dan: Yeah. All right. Let's, let's do what we always do. So I think, you know, you're, you're new to, to Twitter. I mean, uh, but we've been doing this. We've been, uh, yeah, not really, but we've been doing this for a while. And then the, the format is we, we read some updates from, you know, either, either people that are just starting or, you know, people that have some, some cool products to show, or, you know, this nice MRR chart that I'm about to read.

We're gonna do. a few of those just in the tradition of the show. I'm gonna do one, then you're gonna do one, I hope Sandra's gonna send you a link, and then Sandra's gonna do one, and then we're gonna do an interview because I want to hear, you know, how this How this came to be, I know that you actually liked the job.

It was a, it was a good transition and this came a bit out of the blue. So I want to hear all about that. Sounds good.

Dagobert: Awesome.

Dan: Let's do it. So I have an update from Olly.

He's saying you might know Olly.

Dagobert: Actually, it's Oli who finds the job that I had. So that's very funny. Very small world. It's like a community of three people, it seems.

Like, it's crazy.

Dan: It's crazy. What a small world. I promise this is not planned. It's just, it's completely random. Everything is happening so fast. We just smashed through 900 customers in a few days. Trying to stay on top of everything and understand how it's happening. And he has It's 20k MRR now and 908 customers, things are, things are flying.

I assume it's for Senja or is it Senja or Senja, Senja, yeah it's, it's freaking fantastic. I mean, these guys are. They're going like a rocket, huh? Yeah.

Sandra: And it's also very great. An example of two founders or two people finding themselves in the community and then, um, deciding to, to work together, because if I remember correctly, um, Sanyo was started by his co founder and then Ali is a marketing salesperson.

And then they kind of, um. Made this thing happen together.

Dan: Yeah. I believe Olly quit his well paying freelance gig to, to join this. It was like, it seemed like a pretty crazy decisions, maybe similar to, to what Dago is doing now. But, uh, you know, the, the pool is there.

Dagobert: So yeah, first of all, this was the wrong Olly.

It's an other Olly I was speaking of. So like, nevermind. But, uh, Didn't they have like a Twitter fight between co founders or something? I remember that like before I left like six months ago. Wasn't there like some shit going on? Like what happened with that? Like what, did they manage to kind of like come back together?

Like I'm curious about that.

Dan: Yeah, you're right. There was a tweet coming out saying, you know, it's not working out. And I think they patched things through like with all the differences. I'm not sure exactly what the differences were, but it was very close to a split. And then. They, they kept going. I hope things are good now, but yeah, coming back to finding the right partner, you know, even if you do, you might have a different way of working sometimes.

And that is just, it's just that, that doesn't work. Like the business is great. You have complementary skills, as you say, but. You know, the, the chemistry maybe is not right, the, the way you, you think is not right. But I think they patched it up and it seems to be going very

Dagobert: well. Yeah. It's interesting to see that it wasn't all smooth sailing and now they're hawking.

So that's even, even more interesting.

Sandra: Yeah, for sure. I also remember that. Um, drama happening because I love drama on Twitter. So I tend to follow all of them, um, especially during the weekends. But, um, it seems like they are doing, doing quite well. And I think even before drama, they were doing very well.

So, yeah.

Dan: All right. Congrats, uh, Olly. I hope this keeps going up and you, you continue to, to grow and, and, and smash it, it's very, you know, motivating to see. I love it.

Sandra: Nice job. Yeah. And now the next one, um, Dago is reading and you will find the, find it in the comments.

Dagobert: Yep.

Let me see. We need to. I'm so new to Twitter. I don't know where to go. So wait.

Dan: Let me see. Yeah. It used to be with a bird before, like the, but now

Dagobert: it's like these two. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's what it is. Okay.

Thank you for helping an old guy out. Okay. So, Oh, it's Mark.

Okay. Fellow French guy. So it's a tweet from Mark Lou, which we all know from doing crazy videos. And it says nine days of life building a tiny startup. We're fun. I'm surprised how YouTube pushed. Oh shit.

20 K views for unedited content. Yeah. That's a lot in the hiking plus video content is my 2024 bed. Wow. Super interesting. I'm actually thinking quite a lot about that also recently, how it's, yeah, YouTube is like, YouTube is kind of like perfect because it's a mix of social and SEO. It's like magic. Uh, cause like just SEO is getting kind of like killed with AI and like, it's getting shittier and shittier for like five years, even before AI.

And you know, Google results are like worse and worse, you know, over the past few years, it's less and less quality when you go to Google, but like YouTube is still high quality. So it's very interesting to see. Yeah. And

Sandra: I think Mark is approaching it really well because he's not only like, he's kind of building his personality there as well, because I'm so scared of like content marketing in general, because it takes so much time.

Yeah. Um, but he's doing it somehow very well because he's, he has a great personality and he's not scared to show it. And I think that's why it's working perfectly.

Dagobert: Extroverted or something. Yeah. Awesome.

Dan: Do you ever think about doing that? Going full on YouTube?

Dagobert: Yeah, I'm actually going to do all social media now.

Cause I got burned of like being so full on Twitter. You know, and I think reason of my burnout is that when you depend on only one platform for distribution and growth and when some guy like Elon Musk takes over and shits everywhere and your revenue just like fluctuates like crazy. That's just like untenable.

And so I resisted doing a newsletter, going to LinkedIn, doing everything. But it's also because it's hard to do everything, you know, like now that I took a step back, I have more experience, you know, I'm starting an Instagram, I'm going to post memes because I think it's going to be good there. I'm going to try a few different things like that.

And I'm definitely going to do YouTube. So Yeah, I think, I think one of the big lesson I learned last year is like, you know, which is like the most basic lesson that everybody knows, but whatever I had to learn it, you know, myself, it's like, you know, diversify, especially with social. But even with like other channels, like, cause I have a friend, you know, Csaba.

I mean, I'm going to just butcher his name, but that's like Csaba Kissi, whatever it is. Sorry, man. You know, big dev accounts on Twitter. And he told me like he used to make like 500k a month of like SEO, like 15 years ago. And then Google makes an updates and overnight it's like split in half. And then two months after it's like 99 percent is gone.

Whatever you're doing just like try to have like a couple of different ones. So like one social, maybe like SEOs, one social and like a newsletter and some affiliates and you're, you're pretty safe, but like we're basically never safe. So be careful with that.

Sandra: Yeah, we were already commenting a few times that it's so scary that, um, Twitter is becoming like, or has been like a main channel for someone, even though if that volume of that channel is huge and it's doing a great conversion, having that one channel is very, very scary for me, at least.


Dan: but you're, you're still gonna do Twitter, right? It's, it's not that you're giving up on it, but you're gonna diversify more. That's what I hear.

Dagobert: Yeah. And you know, it's funny cause so obviously I have my Twitter of course, but like when, before I left, like, cause I, I basically left like eight months ago and like really left four months ago and I didn't open Twitter for months.

And before I left, I was still like, which I think is the case of a lot of people on Twitter from the community who were there for the past couple of years is that after all the changes. A lot of us lost engagement and we lost kind of like the, the momentum and it felt very depressing. And I remember that was really the state I was in, but like now having like taken like such a break, I'm coming back and I'm seeing like, Oh wow, this new algo that I used to be mad about.

Now I see that it's actually cool. It's actually high quality and it's actually better than the previous one and I'm starting to understand it. So I like update my course and everything, but like what, what I'm saying is I actually think the changes are really good because now. It used to be that to be trending on to have a viral tweet, you needed to be like focused on some metrics, like have a lot of like, have like basically try to have engagement by like big accounts or like have a lot of replies, have likes and shit.

But now it's way more fair in a way that you can get trending as long as it's engaging. So for example, you can have a tweet with like very little likes and very little retweets. But if you have, let's say a lot of bookmarks, because it's something people want to watch later, you're going to get a lot of impressions or like, for example, the other day I did a fun tweet about all these women, which are actually bots, obviously sending me DMS.

And I just had, you know, a joke about that. Yeah. I'm finally gonna, you know, date all of them, but like. It had like very little likes, very little retweets, very little bookmarks, but you know what? People clicked on the screenshots to look at the conversations and that was counted as engagement. And so it, it had quite a lot of impressions.

And I think it's like actually way better now. So the reason I'm saying this is because you asked if I'm going to stay on Twitter and I think actually Twitter is now like, it's not going to get a lot of reach because there's kind of like few people there compared to like Instagram, literally 10 times less people on Instagram.

Like we are about 200 against 2 billion about that's like way less people, but like most of the creators are on Twitter. So that's where you go to kind of like have the interesting conversations kind of like, you know, test your content and you can do anything. You can do like long form video, you can post two hours videos now.

And it actually works because I have my podcast. And when I do like 25 minutes, I just post it like full episode on Twitter. And it gets tons of impressions because, you know, it can work on Twitter too. So you can have like short tweets, long tweets, uh, you can have you know, spaces like this. You can have streams now like live stream, like Twitch, you can have YouTube videos, you can have memes, you can have literally any type of content of any social platform.

You can use Twitter, like to brainstorm, to test it, to have good conversations, and then you can spread that content. Like, for example, my memes, I'm going to put them on Insta. I'm going to start doing some short videos. I'm going to put them on TikTok. Like if I write long form content on Twitter, I'm going to put it on LinkedIn.

But like Twitter is kind of like the, you know, the, the original place where the thinking is happening. So I think actually even more so now Twitter is I mean, as long as it's alive, hopefully, you'll never know if it can make, can like. close or anything. And I say Twitter, but I should say X because I, this new algo is really a new platform for me.

So let's say X. And so, yeah, on X now it's kind of like really the, to me, it's like the starting point of anything you want to, you want to spread out. So yeah, I'm even more so on Twitter. It's just going to, I'm going to be less, I mean, on X, it's just, I'm going to be less stressed about. I need to perform on X to be, you know, to have revenue or anything.

I'm not going to, I'm going to try to not depend on that.

Sandra: Yeah. And I think that's one of the best approaches. I mean, you can always like distribute your content on different platforms and see which one works better. So you're sticking around, but I guess I'm reading the last update and this one is very interesting. And unfortunately I, I'm going to really, really make a mistake with the name.

So, so this person needs to really forgive me, but, um, Dagobert, is it Dagobert? Yeah. I guess so. Dagobert Renouf. Yeah, it works.

I just quit my job

Dagobert: and this is

Sandra: how we end, end with the updates from building

Dagobert: public. That's kind of like the ultimate update, isn't it? You know, cause like,

Sandra: I have to tell you one secret. Um, we had few shows, um, beginning of the year. And I think the first, first show, um, at the beginning of the year was like, Bunch of people tweeting that they are quitting their jobs and we and me and then what the fuck is happening Should we quit our jobs too?

So welcome to the show. Let's start from this from the beginning. Tell us all what is

Dagobert: happening Okay, so it's funny, like, when I, when I posted this tweet, uh, it's also like since I took a break, I feel more free with like X and how I post and I used to schedule everything and I just posted that literally half an hour after having the discussion with my boss.

And I just felt the energy, you know, I felt the energy of like, holy shit. Like, because the funny thing is like, I had just went to my therapist because I still burn out. I learned that it was useful to have a therapist. And I go to see, you know, a woman who's excellent with that. And so I, I was hesitant because I was feeling that, okay, I want to leave.

I want to come back to indie hiking. I like this job, but it's like, You know, now that I kind of like recovered from burnout, you know, I also split up with my now ex wife, like I had all these changes in my life. And now that it's kind of like, okay, after kind of like eight months of this job, I kind of like recovered and I started feeling, you know, I had the energy to try again and I want to try again.

So I was kind of conflicted about it. So I went to my therapist, I talked to her and every time she like, she's funny. Cause She's not afraid to tell me what to do. Like, she's like listening and she's like, Oh, well, that's your answer. You know, she literally, like, I was hesitant to split up with my wife and I was like, Oh, well, it's obvious you should leave.

Like, I'm like, Oh, you're saying that? Wow. Okay, cool. You know, but then I'm like, I'm meditating. I'm like, yeah, she's right. You know, it's not, it's what I want deep down. And so she was the same. She's like, yeah, you should tell them, like, you should be nice about it. But the plan was like to tell them, okay.

Cause like, I kind of thought I was really useful at this company. I had kind of like this arrogance of thinking they fucking love me. They want me. They need me. And so I was like, you know, I'm going to give them like at least three to six months. And I'm going to be, and so I told my. My manager, my, my, my boss, like on last, last week I told him, you know, so I'm planning to leave eventually, but like, I'm not leaving you in the, in a shitty situation.

We can like have three months plan to kind of like, okay, wrap up the projects, like do everything perfect. And he's like, Oh, you can just leave in two weeks. I don't give a shit. And I was like, okay. Okay. I was like, and I was like, um. At first, to be honest, I was scared cause I hadn't planned that he would say that.

And it put me in a situation where I had less money than I expected. Because, you know, I didn't have like the three or six month salary that I wanted, but like after like sleeping on it, I was like, I mean, who gives a fuck? That's awesome. I'm good. And I think also the good thing is like, the reason I started thinking about it again is that, you know, in France we have this crazy awesome system where like basically once you work for six months for a company.

You unlock pretty fucking good and unemployment, unemployment benefits. And these were unlocked in like mid January. After that, I took like one week break and I come back. I was like, I got to go because I knew I could, I knew if I left, I would have like, you know, a few months of like, not have to worry about money.

And I have time to figure shit out, you know? So. I was recovered. I had unlocked unemployment benefits. So I told this to my boss. And then I was kind of like in shock that he said, you can go in two weeks, I mean three weeks. And, and so I had to tweet about it because I was like, you know, and I had only started coming back like for, for like, I mean, I think a day on Twitter, I started posting a couple of days and I had spent the last day.

Like literally until 2 a. m. I spent three hours doing one meme, you know, the match, the matrix meme about the guy saying like, it's a zoo, like, I love it. And so I spent three hours on it because I was so excited by it and then you need to imagine when I do a meme like this, I'm basically going to hear this a hundred times in three hours because I'm doing editing.

So like this thing just like imprinted in my head, you know, that, you know, I want to be free. I want to go, I want to leave. And so the next day I was like. Boss, I gotta leave, you know, I gotta go. And so he was like, yeah, you're out. You know, get the fuck out. So Did you say What was that? Did you send the meme?

Oh, no, I didn't. I didn't. They're saying it. I'm sending him the meme. But yeah, that's the power of memes, man.

Dan: You, you are the interesting, I wanted to do a follow up, you know, now, now that you don't have the job, you're free to be anywhere. I mean, there, there, there are benefits to, to stay in France, like the unemployment ones.

Have you thought about. moving

Dagobert: somewhere. Well, in France, it's so good that you can actually leave and still get them. Like it's crazy. I mean, you have to kind of like look for a job, but like not really whatever.

Dan: So, so imagine this, there's a palm tree, there's a coconut cut in half, you're sipping from it on the beach.

You have double the money now because you're in Bali and you have good unemployment. Is it so

Dagobert: cheap to be in Bali because it seems like everybody's there? So I assume it would be more expensive now. Yeah, so yeah, I think. How much do you need to live comfortably in Bali for one month? Yeah,

Dan: that's a good question.

I think it's maybe around 2, 000, but I don't know. That's

Sandra: not

Dagobert: cheap. Yeah, that's pretty close to how much I spend here. But anyway, here it's rainy, I admit that.

Dan: But you said comfortably, but you could do a nice, you know, two by two with an inflatable mattress and then you also have some nice tweet content, you know.

And then you go a lot cheaper, so.

Dagobert: No, I understand, like, well, you know, part of my burnout recovery was Meeting, having real life friends where I live. So I joined a coworking space that is awesome. And I just made so many friends there actually for Christmas, I did a meme about every single person in the coworking space took me like 20 hours.

And we did a five minute video and they fucking loved it. That was awesome. That was such a great way to build, you know, community. And so now I have this group of friends and we are like hanging out. And to me, that was so important because I had like, basically I had, I basically had like one good friend and then I was just online and I noticed how like I missed, you know, so now I go to the coworking space and it feels like going to school where you have like a bunch of friends and you're just hanging out and it's, everybody's like, you know, freelance or entrepreneur.

Like some people are employees too, but like, it's. You know, remote and yeah. And also I finally moved to my own place and I actually, cause you're talking about inflatable mattress and I have the best bed in the universe, man, 3, 000 bed that I bought with my first salary. That was like, I need to sleep well and this shit is magic.

So I'm not leaving that bed. And so, but yeah, I mean. Jokes aside, I actually love it here. I love this city because that's actually close to my hometown where I was born. I kind of like love this area. It's really my place, you know, north of France. And, but I do want to travel, like I'm planning now. Okay.

By the end of the year, I'll be going to like Bangkok for three months or something, you know, as soon as I have some revenue coming in. And I feel like, you know, so yeah. That's definitely a plan, but there was also this thing about wanting to settle and have friends and have like kind of like a real life that is kind of like solid and stable because it's very unstable to be doing in the businesses and I needed some stability in my life.

That was very good for me to do that. So yeah, I don't want to be, uh, being a nomad full time. I don't like that. That's

Sandra: a good point. Like this is such an unstable will do, especially in the hacking and then having that type of stability is really nice. I never thought about it. That's very nice to put, but I have to ask you something.

I want you to tell me the story that evening that the idea of making meme came to you and when you posted the first one and then the second one and then when you realized, Oh my God, people really

Dagobert: like this.

Oh, okay. So that's like, that's a long time ago. I think that was three years, like two and a half years ago. I don't wait. How? I need to find the first meme. I remember the first meme. The first meme was like a very bad taste joke about comparing, uh, porn to indie hacking. And I noticed people don't like these jokes.

Like, cause like I have, I need, I always need time to kind of like calibrate myself to the audience. Cause if I'm just myself, I'm going to go very hardcore, very trash kind of content very quickly. So I need to be careful, but so. And you have

Sandra: three years, very good job. What was that? And you haven't been cancelled in these three years.

Dagobert: No, no. Oh, yeah. I almost was one day because I made a joke. I mean, that wasn't a meme. That was a joke about how, uh, I hope you don't hate me for it, Sandra. It was, but I think it's mostly American women who are like pissed about it. But anyway, that was a joke comparing, uh, cause you know, my mom used to be, cause she passed now, but she used to be a midwife.

So I know how. You know, woman give birth. I know about all of those things about that. And so I made a joke about how a startup is like giving birth. You always got to keep pushing, you know, cause my mom used to tell me that. So I know that woman, I get a, you know, you say push, push. And I, that was just it.

That was just a joke. And so you had a bunch of like angry, actually a lot of men too, like being whatever, like angry about, Oh, you're comparing that, but like, it's much harder to give, like. I don't give a shit. That's not the point. It was just like, you know, like I almost got canceled. I remember I wasn't a big account yet.

I was, I mean, I was starting to be big. I was like 5k or something for the wheels. And there was a woman from San Francisco, like, I don't remember. Cause like I blocked her, but like a big account and she was quote tweeting me. You're not even telling me directly, but like quote tweeting, Oh, this is what's wrong with like startup bro culture or some shit like that, you know?

So. It's quite a good joke though, I would say. Is it bad to say? Yeah. I, yeah, I think, uh, depend, like, I think in the U S they're more sensitive in Europe. We're more, we have more fun with that. But anyway, yeah, the memes. So. I think that was back, it was before I started Twitter. Actually, I started writing on IndieHackers, you know, the IndieHackers.

com website. I started writing some articles about my experience with like building a startup. Uh, and I think I did one article, one of the posts I did. I thought I would add memes to, I mean, I tried for the first time, like to improve the message and make it more clear. And I started to have fun with that.

And then at the same time, I started to get my first viral reply on Twitter, which made me interested in investing more in that. And I was like, okay, I need one type of content per day. I need to stand out. And I had just started doing memes for fun. So I tried and I remember after like two or three, I mean, I was getting more engagement.

I mean, at the time I was so tiny, like for me, more engagement was like 10 likes instead of two, you know, when you're starting, but I was so excited. Holy shit. Like 10 people like this me. And then after, after like 10 days, I got like 60 likes on one. I was like, Oh wow, that was huge. And so, and so, yeah, I became kind of like.

I mean, basically it's kind of like with indie hacking, right? Like once you see something that's working, you're just like doubling down on it, you know? And once I saw that was working and I remember, you know, for years of not being really active on social media, seeing people get kind of like famous because they were doing the same thing every day for a long time.

And that was like a strategy, like some, for example, some like illustrators or designers would like one design a day for like one year. And then they kind of like got known for that. Yeah. I thought I'm just going to do one meme per day because that's really fun and I love it. And so yeah, that was like a way for me.

And also that was an easy way, easier way to do content because you could, because it was easier for me to tell jokes than, you know. at least at the beginning. So yeah, uh, and eventually after a couple months, I got kind of like known for that. And so I kind of like got trapped into it also. Like for example, the last few months of memes I did before kind of like taking my break and like burning out.

Uh, they weren't as interesting because like I kind of like started repeating myself a lot And so now I actually don't want to do memes every day I just want to do like Because I used to be like spending 30 minutes per meme do like I would do like one week of like 60 memes That I would just create and then I schedule for two months uh, but like now i'm like I got bored with my own content, basically.

I got bored with my own jokes. And actually, it's funny. I'm not going to say who, but I know a few indie hackers who are like, basically still running my same old jokes, like, and creating their own memes. I'm like, dude, this is boring now. This is why you're not getting engagement. Like we made the joke a hundred times.

Stop doing it. It's boring now. And so I'm kind of like looking for new kind of content. So, for example, the couple of memes I did, like, since coming back, they took me hours because it was like, more like for the love of it. And like, I just want, I just, and I'm doing video now because I think it's more powerful to do video memes.

So I mostly do video and, uh, yeah, but now memes is like something I'm so used to do it because I did probably 500 or more. So I'm like, now it's like a way of expressing myself creatively, you know, in a fun way.

Dan: In a landscape where everyone's serious and posting. MRR charts and, you know, revenue this and revenue that.

It's somewhat refreshing to see someone that doesn't take themselves seriously all the time and, you know, bring some fun into it because as you say, this is, you need some sort of support group. This is a difficult journey. Yeah. So, you know, these, these small things, they, they get you to the next day or maybe you're in a slump and you see one of these and, and you just get a little bit further.

And I love that. I think more people should do that. I, I try to also, you know. make fun when, when it's time to make fun. I mean, you, you also don't want to do that all the time because then people might not take you seriously anymore. But if you care about that, I mean, yeah, it's Twitter. Everyone does whatever they want anyway.


Sandra: I just wanted to add one thing, but as long as they don't become a pressure. Yeah. Like there, there is a certain type of like the pressure you can feel when you see something working and then it constantly work and then you pressure yourself.

Dagobert: Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Now, I want to say something about what you said down about You know, it's funny, it's funny content and it's good to have funny content when you have only serious, uh, and kind of boring, to be honest, sometimes, you know, for me, it's all about boredom.

You know, that's why I leave jobs. I leave jobs because I'm bored. You know, I tweet because I'm bored. Like it's all about avoiding boredom and trying to have fun, but not just fun, like not bored. And so interesting. It's interesting. You say, cause like for a long time, my best performing contents was the memes, but now my best performing content is actually, cause I started doing like.

Long tweets about like insightful shit. Like when I talked about my burnout, that's my most successful tweet ever. You know, talking, showing vulnerability. You know, I remember when I posted that I was so scared. I was like, wow, I'm just going to say this. I was scared people would make fun of me because like it's so vulnerable.

And so I think what people. I think the boring thing with social media is like, whatever you do, like some people can do fun content, but it's still boring because it's just like to get views. And it's kind of like, like when it's really something you feel like, you know what I mean? Like, so I feel like, because I thought my tweet about burnout was serious, but it was not like.

A thread or like, yeah, you know, here's what I learned about, you know, like it was like an actual, uh, you know, the seven reason I burn. I will surprise you. That wasn't that. That was like, that was like, no, you know, this is real shit. And I think that's what people want. Like people want real shit. That's really what people want.

And. And, and the beautiful thing I gotta say is that when I was just pressuring myself to get viral every day, because whatever I do, I will pressure myself to get viral. I cannot escape this. This is my kind of like always thinking of that. But anyway, when you tweet something that is just like, okay, this is a cool idea.

I'm going to tweet this. I mean, I'm going to post this and it's just because you want likes or you want engagement. If you fail, to be honest, it feels like shit. It feels like failure. But what I noticed is when I share something that's really in my heart, even if I get like one like, I'm so happy because I feel like somebody sees me.

I feel like somebody cares and that's like so much better, man. Like then that always having, you know, because like, I, and I think there's like a, uh, an inverse correlation of like the less authentic what you share is the more like you need to feel happy about it. And like the more authentic it is, the, the, the stronger, uh, you will feel the, that people see you.

Like if you have a hundred people appreciating something, that's really from your heart, it really means something. It's really, wow. And so I think that's the key to escape, like the pressure of social media is to be more real. And it's also actually how you get more successful, I think. So that's funny.

It's like, you get more successful by kind of like escaping the treadmill of always trying to post content to get viral and you just post very real and authentic shit. Whether it's jokes, whether it's like, you know, vulnerable stories that you've been through, whether, you know, or it can even be insightful and, you know, uh, kind of like, uh, you can be teaching stuff.

You, you, you doesn't have to, it can be like educational. It doesn't have to not, you don't have to avoid all these types of like content, but. like when you really feel it, I think that's what people want and you can do any type of content, but you have to be real with it.

Dan: Very well said. I think if you, if you are yourself truly, and you don't do it just for the impressions that that's when the content gets good, but it's, it's very hard to do that when you have this. Invisible pressure to post on a daily basis, right? You don't feel it every day. You don't, you cannot open up every day, right?

Or maybe you don't have enough to open up every day, but you're talking about the algorithm. These days, I think it's, uh, it's, it's more ruthless that way. Maybe it was a little bit like this always, but you cannot stop posting. You have this pressure of putting something there, at least one thing per day.

Dagobert: Actually, I think now you don't need to post as regularly as before. I think, I think it's changed. I think you can post less. You get, you, you don't have to post. I think it doesn't matter to post. every day almost now. Uh, maybe it's, I mean, I need to be sure. I'm not sure what I'm saying. Maybe it's because I have enough followers that I don't need to worry about it.

But I do think that I, yeah, I think now it's so much about how engaging a post is that, I mean, because yeah, I remember like tweeting about, because like Stripe made a book about the story of my startup and they sent it to me. And so I tweeted about it. That was awesome. But like, I hadn't tweeted in weeks.

And I just posted it and it went viral. And when I came back to Twitter, I didn't even warm up my account because like, like you used to be, uh, you know, you used to have to like, if you took a break, that was actually a part of my course. You used to have to kind of like reply to people for a few days, kind of like, you know, warm things up.

I didn't warm anything up and I'd got like lots of engagement again. And so, and I know a lot of, I have a couple of friends who have a lot of followers too, and like they came back and they had like two likes. So it's really about content, I think. And now that's actually, that's what you say. It's ruthless, but it's actually, I think better in a way, because like, it's really about, is it engaging and you don't have to play all of these games of like.

You know, you can, like, it's better, but like, you don't have to. And that's kind of like freeing. You can focus on like, like, I mean, knowing that I don't have to tweet every day anymore to be successful on Twitter, it's such a huge burden off my shoulders, man. Like, for example, I didn't tweet much this week because I was still busy with my job and wrapping things up.

And I didn't feel bad about it because I know if I tweet again, it's going to be fine. And that's like. Way healthier. So I think it's good because it used to be like mental to be active and successful on Twitter, what you had to do.

Dan: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in fairness, you know, a lot of the. The content that you tweeted was, was good in these past few weeks, even though it was, it was rare, uh, but it does seem like you, you are rewarded more for, you know, just coming with this raw form content in any time, really, it can, it gets picked up by the algorithm, even though you were inactive, but I want to know, you know, fast forward, many, three years now from the first meme, you probably went over the burnout now as it sound, you, you, you sound, you sound fresh.

You sound, you know, a little bit more energetic, positive. I love to see that. I would say now you're probably brewing things. You're, you're probably Excited to, or you can't, you can't wait to start on a new product. Is that right? And, and if it's so, what is it, what, what are you gonna do first?

Dagobert: Okay. So that's a good, uh, good question because the main thing I learned from my burnout and failure is that.

I need to focus on survival first, like having enough income to not worry about it. And the quickest way for me to get income right now is to update my Twitter course, because just coming, cause like it had failed to, and actually rename it X course, that would be better. Cause like, since, since they rebranded, basically my, my sales like fell off a cliff and you know, because I'm a perfectionist, I was too lazy, lazy to rebrand it because it implied a lot of things.

So anyway, But like, just like it was, but it was down to like 500 a month. Uh, cause like before like the rebrand, even without being on Twitter, I was still at 2k a month. That was pretty cool. Uh, I sold 80, 85k dollars total. But, so, if I just rebranded and if I just updated. And I'm just back on to like, even now, before that, just being back on Twitter, it went, it's going back up to like 1500 a month or something.

I can see the trend. That's already good. So my first step is going to be, I mean, it doesn't deserve another first step, but let's say there's two first steps like this, this first, one of the first thing I'm doing is like, I'm going to update my course because, but I'm, I have to wait to be back because I want to content to be good.

So I need to verify everything, you know? So I need to make sure that. I'm not saying bullshit, so I'm going to have to wait for like maybe one month or two of going back on Twitter to be like, okay, this is the reality of things now, this is how people should approach it. Um, and I think just updating and rebranding would take it to, and being active on Twitter again, would take it to at least 3k per month, and hopefully 5.

You know, I think that's possible. I'm going to increase the price too. Cause I feel like everybody who's on Twitter now basically pays. Cause if you don't pay, you're kind of like fuck now. So you have to pay, uh, to at least be visible on replies and shit. So I think, uh, the people who are still on X. Uh, have more money basically, because you know, we are invested, so I'm probably put the price up to like 129 or something.

So I think, uh, this should be good. And the other thing is I'm writing a book and actually almost, you know, I was almost done with all the mistakes I did with Logology, my startup. And what I learned from it, but it's really about kind of like insightful. It's not like, uh, Oh yeah, I should have studied the market.

All I should, I like, it's not like, it's more like how my ego fucked me, you know, like these kinds of deep things, like how, like, and the funny thing, like spending eight months at this startup I was working for. Every day I was looking at the founders and I was like, damn, they're making the same fucking mistakes.

And I was, and I was telling them and they couldn't get it because they had to make the mistakes themselves. So there's this thing about ego getting in the way and like how, and not just ego, but also like your fantasy. Like, I think the biggest trap is having a fantasy. Like you have this fantasy of how your life is going to be, of how your product is going to help people.

And it prevents you from being like. Like, it makes it romantic instead of being pragmatic and instead of being like, Oh, this is just a business, you know? And so I even, uh, I am even thinking of naming the book, like, fuck your product. That would be like my first, that's been like my ultimate idea. Like fuck your product.

I think people need an awakening. Of like, like I needed, like, fuck this. Like you are not your product, your product isn't your baby. And like, basically it's a book about that, about all these mistakes, but more like, you know, mindset mistakes. It's not about, Oh, I should have done SEO. Like, I'm not going to say that.

I'm not going to say, you know, uh, common advice like that. I'm going to try to have like very deep insight. And I, and every time I talk to this about people that tell me, take my money, I want it. So I think it's a good sign. So I'm going to launch this. So, yeah, and so the reason I'm saying this is that it's much easier to launch content than product.

And so since I'm aiming for survival, I'm not going to get the ego of being like, I need to launch a product. No, I need survival. So I'm going to update my course, do this book slash course about my mistakes and hopeful, and I'm also probably going to partner with high fury, you know, the scheduling tool, uh, to maybe talk about their, their con to talk about their stuff and get some income from that.

I'm just basically doing the simplest things that I can do. To stabilize, uh, in the income and then I have product ideals and I have small bets I want to try, but it is not going to be, I'm not going to, I'm not going to start with that because I don't, because they're like, and that's again about ego. My ego wants to be a founder.

I want to be Peter levels. I want to be like building amazing products and be a star and shit. But like my quickest path to survival is just to do content and people actually appreciate it. So it's good enough. I don't have to be something else. It's cool. So I'm focused on that. Um, and then, yeah, I have a couple of ideas, uh, for, you know, for founders and for indie hackers and, you know, I'll try them, but that's, that's really not my focus right now.

My focus is like, okay, I'm going to do content and also diversify and all the platforms. Cause like if I lose my Twitter, I'm dead. So I basically need to diversify as quickly as possible. So I'm diversifying with, you know, newsletter, Instagram, Tik Tok, YouTube. I don't want to say LinkedIn, but I think I got to go to LinkedIn.

But, you know, I fucking hate it, but whatever, you know. Yeah. That's

Dan: my plan. We just lost, we just lost 10 listeners, just

Dagobert: saying LinkedIn, that was like an automatic mute thing. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. This sounds awesome. So yeah. Diversifying, uh, social media, but also it sounds like you want multiple revenue streams like that.

Is that the grand plan to sort of have, even though there's not one that, you know, makes tens of thousands or maybe they will, but you don't bet on that. Yeah. So yeah,

Dagobert: there's a thing about, I don't know if you guys know about the book. Anti fragile, you know, by Nassim Taleb, which is pretty famous and whatever, uh, and this, the concept of you have things in life, uh, which are fragile, which means if you.

If you hurt them, they break, then you have things that are solid or robust, which like if you hit them, nothing happens and anti fragile is like something you hit it and it gets stronger. And, and so he gives a few examples, but basically the book about mistakes would make me anti fragile. Let me explain, like, which is like the holy grail, like, cause like if I launch new startups, new products and they fail, you know, I can talk about it on social media.

And it can gives me, and it gives me visibility about making mistakes about my failures. And this means my product about failing my startup will get sales. So basically it's good to have a product that is like, for example, if I, if I have success with my startup, it's awesome. I have success. But if I, if I have failure, I can tell that failure into content that is going to get.

sales for my book about failure. So it's kind of like making me super resistant to anything that I, and so I'm thinking I'm going to have my book about failure and my content about failure before I try again. So that if I fail, I mean, even if I win, but like, if I fail, I have like something to fall back on that is consistent and that people can buy and resonate with.

So that's kind of like my plan. Like I basically want to create like this. This product, like this book stash product. And I hope to sell it for like decades, basically, you know, kind of like that, that would be something that. I always sell, uh, to give me some stability. And yeah, so yeah, it's really about, uh, and yeah, so that's diversifying.

Like I would have content, I would have courses, uh, maybe some again, like HypeFury partnership. I don't want to do sponsorship or partnerships usually, but these guys, I talk about them all the time in my course. I've been using that product for like three years. They, they acquired Blackmagic, which is my favorite Twitter tool.

So like, you know, If I can get a couple of grand a month just for tweeting about them, which is very easy for me and natural, that would be awesome. So really like do different type of revenue streams, as you said, because yeah, I think the, when all my revenue depended on just my Twitter course and Elon threatened to change everything or just rebranded, I was dead basically.

So that's all about diversification, like diversifying acquisition channels. It's also diversifying type of products.

Sandra: Yeah, for sure. For sure. That makes sense. And then, um, but. No, I mean, I mean, you're going to write about it and people are going to read about it, but that whole process, I mean, you know, I'm also building and working on Klu, but, um, I can only imagine how hard it was. Realizing something is not going your way or like giving up and like, I feel like sometimes, as you said, we tend to live in this pinky world where we kind of picture the product and how it should look like and you work and you work and then there is something happening and how, what, what was this process of realization?

Okay. Like this doesn't work. I can't anymore and I, I read your post and there was also mentioning about like, it was too much and there was a burnout as well happening and this was all happening in the same time. So it's like, how do you let it go at some? point, you know, like, especially, especially with bunch of indie products as well.

And even in my case, you do tend to emotionally connect with what you're building. And then even if you have some kind of traction or you don't, or you're trying, like, how was this process for you of being like realistic to yourself and be like, okay, this doesn't work. Like I can't continue like this. I mean, if it's too much, we don't have

Dagobert: to go.

Oh no, I love, you know, I love going deep. So no problem.

You know, it's funny, the burnout came after the success of my course, like right after. I launched my course, I got like 30k in sales in one month. The next month I get 20 or 30k in sales. Next month I get 10k 10k the following month. And that is when I burned out because I realized, holy shit, I spent five years.

With this logo startup that for three years made nothing and then for two years made like we struggled to make 3k a month and there was two of us and then there's taxes was like very way too little and I that's really why I burnt out because I remember it kind of like It really was the realization, like it hit me like, Oh, it's not supposed to be like this.

And so all of the burden I had on my shoulders for like years, it was like, wow, I really like unraveled. It's kind of like something that started unraveling and I couldn't stop it. And so my body basically collapsed. Like it, like my brain and everything, all the pressure, all the kind of like. You know, pushing, pushing, pushing like every day for years and like forcing myself to keep believing to kind of like be like, yeah, it's going to be fine.

It's going to be okay. Eventually we're going to have success and seeing that, oh, wow, I get 10 times more success in like 10 times this time, like, and it's easier. And it's, I mean, that was very shocking to me because, you know, it's easy to kind of like. romanticize the hustle and the grind and like, yeah, it's going to take years.

And it's like an adventure. And you, you see it that way at the beginning. Cause like, it's exciting. It's motivating. You tell yourself a story, like it's an adventure. I can, it's cool. And for me, it was with my wife too. So that was like an adventure. We live together and Okay, I'm going to say something that may be going to make me can make me be canceled.

So like, that's, that's the thing I'm thinking for my book that is very brutal, but that I think is fun. So I want to say it and just test people's reaction, but maybe you will be shocked. But so, you know, with my wife, really, our startup was really like our baby. That's really like our baby. And, and I remember even tweeting about it, like, because, uh, her, because she has like siblings and her siblings were having actual kids at the same time, like normal babies.

And so I remember thinking that it was very similar and tweeting about, and I remember having this thought of like, you know, when you are a parent, I am not a parent, but like I saw them and I was like, you know, when you, when you get kids, uh, you. You cannot give up on them. Like, so even if you suck, even if you're completely shit as a parent, eventually you will figure it out.

You don't have a choice. And so I was like, we should like, it's the same with a startup. If we don't give ourselves a choice of failing, if you don't give yourself a choice that the startup will die, if it's not possible, you will figure it out. That was like my thought. And I remember making a tweet about that.

And I was, and I was like, and then when I was writing my book, I was like, yeah, I'm My startup was like, uh, a babe, like a handicapped baby, like a baby that's going to have a very hard time, you know, surviving. And I know it's terrible, but what I mean is like, with a baby, you have to keep doing it, even if it's like a handicapped baby.

But with your startup, dude, if you have a startup and it's retarded, like, you know. You can move on to a new startup, you don't have to keep trying to save your startup. Yeah, I'm so sorry for saying this and I'm seeing Sandra's reaction in the Google meet. So I'm sorry guys, I know this is brutal, but I was, you know, I was thinking that like, if you have a baby and it has like a health problem or something, it doesn't matter.

You love him. You love it. You're going to keep taking care about, you know, like if it's your startup and it's like, and it's missing like so many essential parts. You can just move on. You don't have to sacrifice yourself for a startup. You can just be like, you know, fuck you. Bye. You know, and so you could have said that.

When was that?

Dan: Guys, if it

Dagobert: doesn't work, it's okay. You don't have to, you know, build on your life with a startup that is not. Yeah, yeah. But that's

Sandra: like, that's really hard to realize. I think. And I think it's also like looking at myself, it's sometimes like, it's such a hard thing to accept that something that you put so much time and effort didn't work because then your question.

I think you're questioning your skills, you're questioning all the time you have put into it, you know, like, especially in your case, if you were able to see how fast you can make money and grow somewhere as well, then you're like questioning, like, that's, that's kind of my thinking. Like I would question my capabilities of managing.


Dagobert: yeah,

Sandra: babies. Yeah, this

Dagobert: one.

I'm gonna tweet it 'cause you know, I want to try, but we'll see how it goes.

Dan: Yeah, it, it's, I hope it's gonna go better than the one with the torrent that I think that

Dagobert: that didn't work.

Dan: For people that don't know, he, he tried to put his course on a torrent and I think

Dagobert: actually it was already there.

It's not me. And I just like, you know, guys, oh, you see it? Yeah. I was like, please guys download it to see if I can get trending on torrent. Uh, and actually I got a couple of sales, but nothing more. And it didn't trend, but I think it's because torrent sites now it's not like back in the day where he used to be so cool.

And like now it's like very niche. So it didn't do anything. I just probably lost a couple of sales. That's it. Yeah,

Dan: but I love the experimental approach to it, you know, like, okay, let's test out this channel and see how this one does. Pretty cool. And it could have been, you know, like a revolutionary move.

You never

Dagobert: know. Never know. Yeah. I had to try. And also to be honest, I didn't have many sales and I don't have many. So I didn't, I didn't feel like I was going to lose anything. And I don't think I did, to be honest, besides a couple of sales, but

Dan: yeah. Oh, and I, I could keep going for hours and hours. I think your, your whole story is so interesting and, and I have so many other things to, to ask, but we're, we've already did it for one hour.

So we. Don't want to take more of your time unless you have something to say to us, something that we didn't get to, something that you want to take off your chest.

Sandra: Except this is the best show you have been on. I mean, thank

Dagobert: you. Yeah. I mean, it's the first show I've been on in so long. And yeah, that's actually a good idea to see.

you guys faces when we're recording because like, we've all those spaces, not like that. So it's cool. Yeah. This is the best show ever. Yeah, that's. And like, I mean, congrats. Like, yeah, I have one last thing to say. It's like, you know, I have a podcast as well and, but like we were thinking of maybe stopping it.

In all fairness, I think we might be stopping it because James, my co host lost motivation for it. And I think it's because it didn't grow as fast as he wanted and we don't have any revenue from it.

And I saw, and I basically saw you guys like saying you were making revenue with this show. And I sent him the tweet. I'm like, what's stopping us from doing this, man. Let's go. And I think it motivated him again. So we're going to record like next week. And so, yeah, I mean, congrats guys on the success of the show.

I was, I was blown away by this. Cause like, you know, we have a podcast and we have basically zero revenue from it. So like, congrats on getting revenue. I wonder how you did it.

Dan: We can talk about that if you want, if you still have time. You know, it, it was not planned that that's for sure. And things happened very fast and we're still figuring out, you know, how to, how to do this in the longterm. So we got sponsorships from products that we actually use that we love and we talk about them, I think anyway.

So as, as you say, with, uh, with, I'm sure it didn't need.

Dagobert: Yeah,

Dan: it's exactly the same concept where you're probably going to talk naturally about that, that product anyway. So it makes a lot of sense since you love it for it to, to be a sponsor on the show, because then,

Dagobert: you know, I think, I think we have echo of you, Dan.

I'm sorry. Is it just me? I

Sandra: think, um, make sure that you're, um, Oh, it's me. It's always me. I'm so sorry.

Dan: I'm sorry. All right. I'll. I'll pick it up where I left it. So I was saying that it made a lot of sense to talk about those sponsors and to reach out to them since we, we use their product and we liked their product anyway, and our strategy was quite simple.

We would, we would do an episode. We would have content regarding an episode or even content regarding that product that we, we didn't post it for that purpose, but it would happen that. Sandra would go in under my content and say, Hey, I wonder why they're not a sponsor of the show. It's as simple as that.

This, this is exactly how we got, I think, most of them. There were some that reached out. So like

Dagobert: tagging them? Basically tagging them?

Dan: Just tagging them and saying, you know, I think it would be great if you sponsored the show.

Dagobert: So basically you record, you record an episode and then this episode talks about certain topics.

And then you tag it.

Dan: Not even the episode, but content. So let's say, let's say Lemon Squeeze is a sponsor that we love. They, you know, I, I tweet about the features that. I really liked that I was missing, you know, in the payment flow, customization, whatever. And, and then it so happens that, you know, Sandra sees this and under that content where I say, you know, this is an awesome feature.

She says, well, why, why don't you sponsor the show? I think that would be a good idea. And that's it.

Sandra: Brilliant, isn't it? Then you have like products sponsoring the show you really love and the best part of it It's like when you're talking like in this case, like when you're talking about them, there is no this fake attitude regarding the Sponsors because you're using the product you already love the product and with all the sponsors whenever we we have a chat with them you're always like look there is possibility that we might not like something and The whole point of this like partnership or the deal that we have is about um being able to give the feedback as well And they all are super cool about it.

And that was like really important for us. So, you know Being real about the products and the sponsors that we have on the show So, um, it means not only like us suggesting the sponsors, but also like actually giving the feedback and, um, so

Dan: yeah. That's one part. And the other part is, you know, just as simple as have that button on the website.

So we, we got a lot of incredibly cool products that went to our website. There was a big. button with a, actually, of course, lemon squeezy checkout. And they, they bought a sponsorship and there are some products that we didn't know about. We met those people and you know, our, our minds were blown by pretty much every single one of them.

And then we got to use their product as well and then to talk about it. And we got quite a few that way as well. And that, I, I don't know what we did for that to work, but I think it is generally the approach of the show where we try to be, you know, as, as you see now, we just try to be having a chat and talking openly about any issue.

And also recognizing, you know, people starting out, people that, uh, maybe don't have that much of a voice yet. Uh, if, if we come across their, their content, we do it and that seemed to, to, uh, resonate with people as well. So that, that is it. There, it's nothing more complicated than that. Um, we, we also made it.

a product in the end. So a product is a lot said, but we wanted to make this more than just the show. We wanted to make this a community and we wanted to talk to people that listen to the show. So we also did memberships. I mean, that's, you know, revenue wise that that's not a lot, but again, we got to. to get close to people that have inspiring stories that we otherwise not known.

It's pretty crazy. And I think we have a very strong community that's coming up as well. You know, we're, we're no small bets or anything like that. I don't think we're ever going to be, but that's also as, as, as important as the sponsors. And the way we did that is we put it on the website, we did a launch and product hunt.

It didn't go too well, actually, we almost didn't get featured. But again, the people that resonated with the show wanted to support us. So those are, you know, the two revenue streams that, that we get. And I think, You know, with that, we are able to do the show for a very long time. There's enough motivation and momentum and, you know, enough to cover our costs to do the show for quite a while.

The sponsorships are though for, for three months mostly. So at some point in three months, we're going to have to see, you know, how to, how to approach it. But so far, so good.

Dagobert: Yeah, that's very inspiring. I think I've never seen like so quickly, like you just launched it and you had like. a decent amount of sponsorship.

That is very, and I, there's such a simple way of doing it. So yeah, it's interesting. You know, it brings me back to what I said about being too much romantic about what we do. Now, remember when I started the podcast, I think it was one year ago. I, that was in the first episode that was talking with James about how I don't want to have sponsors because I don't want to kind of like taint the, you know, the vibe.

I, I felt like it was kind of like compromises somehow. And now that I took my long break, I burned out, I recovered, I'm like, I don't give a shit. I can have sponsors. It doesn't matter. It's not bad. There's nothing wrong about it. I just was living in my fantasy of being this kind of like, you know, almost benevolent you know, founder or something that was just like trying to live a weird fantasy romantic that I had.

So yeah, very inspiring to see you guys do this. So yeah. Thanks for explaining.

Sandra: Thank you. That was really nice.

Dan: Sandra. You take it away, close it down. Oh,

Sandra: no. Um, wait, you do the best job when it comes to this, but I can try my best. First of all, Dago, thank you so much for being here. I wish you all the success. Um, and I'm so happy that you're back, whatever you do, I bet it's going to be great. Um, and then. This, Dan does the best job of this.

And I cannot believe that you are letting me doing this, but you can listen to it. Listen to us on the Apple music, correct? Podcast, podcast, we have a great newsletter.

Dan: What's our website, Sandra?

Sandra: Please, everything is there.

I told you, we have certain roles in, in here. You do the, the closing line.

Dan: Thank you so much. It was a great pleasure to, to talk to you. I don't think we've talked before, but never like this. Hope we can do it again soon. It was awesome. Next time we do it, you're gonna tell us about all of your revenue streams and your success.

Can't wait for that.

Dagobert: Okay, cool. Yeah. I hope so. Thanks guys. I loved it. Bye.

Dan: Have a lovely weekend. Thank you everyone for joining and have a lovely weekend and we'll catch you again on Monday. Bye.

Sandra: See you. Bye.

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