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Episode 16 of Morning Maker Show: Getting to 120k MRR ― Baked & Roasted in the indie oven

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    Morning Maker Show


In this special episode, Dan & Sandra have Alex as a special guest! She talks about her wild ride from Instagram marketing to launching Baked with Nick. Discover her story: closing deals, making money, and the incredible success of Plus, get ready for some bonus design roasts. Let's go!

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Alex: I would do not recommend starting subscription model as a junior or as a person that don't have a lot of experience.

I believe every month and every step we take during this time prepared us to what we have currently

is nick there I hope not

Dan: Nick's not here.

So you can say whatever.

Alex: So we went live and the money started to keep coming

and then, I was on the call in the evening and We managed to close two deals

everyone is happy when money keep coming

Dan: Alex. Welcome,

Sandra: Alex.

How are you feeling this lovely morning, Alex? Tell us everything.

Alex: Well, I'm kind of stressed because the last time I was in space. It was, it was about five months ago, six months ago, but yeah,

Sandra: you're

Dan: just with friends, you know, and nothing to worry about. We're just gonna ask every single detail about your business and then, uh, people will, uh, We'll maybe have some questions in the comments too.

And that's it.

Alex: Yeah, but, um,

Sandra: we're going to make Alex also read the updates. So this is going to be fun thing

Alex: as well.

Dan: Yeah. So welcome everyone to this special edition of the morning maker show. We never had a guest. This is the first time. This is also the day that we launched on product hunt where.

Absolutely, I don't even know how to describe the feeling. Sandra has very good words. I'm just overwhelmed by all the support and all the nice messages that we got. I wrote this super long post, very emotional, and I'm just so thankful for everyone that's joining for the show and supporting us. You're the best.

Thank you. Oh,

Sandra: Haley, that was such a nice, nice way to put it all together. It's very true. Like, the day started, usually Prada Khan days are like that. You have ups and downs all the time, but this morning started really bad. In one moment, I was questioning everything.

Dan: Yeah. We, we didn't have a lot of luck, but I don't care.

We, we got all this love from the people that listened to the show. And that's just, just the number we, we were featured eventually. So that's, that's cool. I'm happy. Are you happy,

Sandra: Sandra? Very happy. Very, very happy. And that's, what's important. At the show that we can enjoy the show and we can talk about Alex.

Alex: Yeah.

Dan: Okay. But we, we do one thing on this show and that is. Discover what people were building, their updates, their struggles. And we're going to do that for a few updates. And then we're going to hear from Alex and her crazy story of making, I kid you not, 30, 000 in 48 hours. with a new product. It's absolutely insane.

And then also talk,

also talk about Baked and their design studio and their incredible achievements there. I actually can't wait. I have so many questions. And without further ado, let's read the first update by Nic.

Nic says, I need your help. What do you think about the copy? Is the value proposition clear? Anything you'd want to change.

So he says, convert your blogs, convert your blog pages to pins. We all know Pinterest can bring a lot of traffic, but generating pins for Pinterest can take hours of work. With blog to pin, you can do it in minutes on scale. Try it now.

Sandra: Alex.

I love this. It's no one knows who we are. Very respectful to. I


Alex: I, I remember, I, I believe I remember this app, uh, because I believe I did a roast of this, but I, I'm not sure if this is the same thing I roasted um, pins seem like something not clear, like pins in something like for Pinterest, right? Isn't it?

Dan: Yeah. Uh, so. Post on Pinterest is a pin, right?

Sandra: Yeah, I

Alex: have like I believe I believe Pinterest is dead already, right? Yeah,

Dan: I think this is is this one one feedback is You know, is this your user is a frequent user of Pinterest, or is it a person like us that actually have no idea what we're talking about when we look at this?

Because maybe it makes a lot of sense for that user specifically. I think for me, I would, I would want a little bit more on Why I should use this then go on the, on Pinterest and post there what, what is actually, yeah, a bit more on the value proposition.

Alex: Yeah, I,

Sandra: I just wanted to say that like the copy itself is, you know, very nice, but it's always a sellable point when there is a value in it.

Alex: I would add something, I would add something visual to, um, communicate is a Pinterest. Just convert your blocks, blocks to pins in minutes, for example. Um, but I'm missing something that will visually, visually tells me that it's Pinterest. Maybe red color or something like this.

Dan: Yeah. So essentially. Instead of talking about it, or just talking about it, also showing in practice what happens.

It could be something interactive, huh? Like, a small thing where you, you have kind of a thing that looks like a blog post, and you press a button and it gets turned into a pin that kind of looks like Pinterest. Wouldn't that be cool? Is it a

Alex: landing page, or it's like OG image.

Dan: I think it's landing page.

Alex: Landing page. Yeah.

Dan: You could plug, plug in your design agency.

Alex: Yeah, because, like. The copy, as Sandra said, is okay, but like why the cocktails are like in that type of the grid. Yeah. This whole point, I actually,

Sandra: um, know what's happening in this, in the

Alex: cocktail. Yeah, that's the problem.

Like, you convert your blog's pages to pins, that's okay, that's cool, we get it at Pinterest, we get that it needs some sort of visuals that would suggest the Pinterest at the first sight, but, what

Sandra: the hell it's actually doing. I have a lot

Alex: of

Sandra: nice cocktails and I was already sold, so Nick, this works for me perfectly.

Dan: I think it's a Friday. It's a Friday, right? So you need to put some cocktails regardless of your coffee. That's it. I know the backstory. I know the backstory. Nick is making an app called Cocktail Wave. Yes. Yes. So he probably make an example of how he turned his cocktail wave blog posts into pins. Right?

But no one else knows that, that that's not a user of

Alex: cocktail wave. I figure it out like when we talk about this, but first it suggests me the cocktails because first I see the cocktails, then I read. Um, so it would be great to paste some other like. Examples as well. And I would use Pinterest layout.

So instead of doing this thing, the description above, I would use like red button with a pin or with the safe, whatever they use there on Pinterest.

Dan: Yeah, showing the Pinterest branding, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Agree. All right. I think this is cool. We're gonna have like a design spin this in this show.

Yeah. We don't usually have, you know, there's a problem. If Alex keeps making these records with baked with Nick, then we were going to have her a lot on the show. So please slow down

Sandra: in the previous show time for free as well. So you can reach Alex whenever Bye.

Dan: Oh, yeah, she, she does design for free, just, just ping her.

Sandra: Propose

Alex: me to do a roast.

Dan: All right, let's jump to the next update. Also design related. I mean, might as well make this the theme of the show. Sandra, you want to take it? Yes.

Alex: Um, so what, oh, Dan, I hit

Sandra: you. Do a SWAT, Norman, Norman,

Um, here react native devs. Um, what do you think about the onboarding flow? Suggestions are welcome.

Alex: Accessibility sucks.

The contrast is terrible. Thank you.

Dan: The text on the green background is, so Alex is mentioning probably, I actually think it's, it's like, okay, fine. I see that too, Alex, but it's a nice flow. You have to agree.

Sandra: I do

Alex: agree. I'm finding, I'm just finding things to improve. He asked for suggestions, so I'm giving a suggestion.

Dan: I agree.

Yeah, so A bit of contrast actually like the, the general color theme though, like the green, I think it looks cool. It's like a vibrant green. Alex, help me describe it. What's the screen? Green. Exactly. It's very cool. Would you be able to tell that this is not a native app?

Not really. No. That's one of the interesting things that I find is that. I think React Native and similar solutions, there are quite a few, I guess Flutter will be the next one, have gotten so advanced that it's hard to tell, and I mean, at the end of the day, it doesn't even matter to the user, because if the app is well built and has a good user experience, then who cares?

And there used to be this thing that if you can't do it natively, if it's not a native iOS app, it's just not as high quality.

Alex: Yeah, from experience perspective and maybe small stuff about UI, I would add possibility to skip. Um, the features that currently is happening on the screen that we see, you don't, sorry.

I would give a possibility to skip that. And there was a time when there was like a heads in the circle. I would differentiate the, the height of them to make it like. More not that of all this one. Not that overwhelming on the screen and then with it You have levels, but I don't know what is going on with that.

Dan: Yeah, we don't know Problem Yeah, Alex, so you need to know, we've been battling this for the fourth episode now. No one is linking anymore. There are just no links on the internet, it's just, it's just an image. So it would be nice to get the context on, on, yeah, what, what you say, what the levels are and what the app is, but unfortunately I cannot for the life of me find the link to this.

It looks cool though.

Alex: So yeah,

Dan: please put a link for everyone else to find and tell us a little bit about your app. I like it. I give it an eight out of 10 accessibility. That one is a, is an important one to fix and then skipping stuff. I told this to Sandra last week, make it so you can skip these onboardings because if I want to use the app and I have to go through every single step, I'm probably going to uninstall it.

It's that bad.

Sandra: Yeah. And I told him I made a skip button so he can skip everything.

Dan: Thank you. Okay. It is now Alex's time to shine. Alex, this will be your first update. Maybe not too much.

Alex: day one

Sandra: of building public.

Alex: Day one of building public sprint with me, @MeetKevon. Everyone seems to already have something good to build, but I will be a little rebel and say I have no idea what would be good to build yet.

I think this is most common thing, by the way. So I would like to decide this month to find my audience and something they would desire and could potentially pay for. We are halfway.

Sandra: I mean, you can stop

Dan: whenever you want. We can already unpack, like

Alex: Like getting ex customers paying, um Why? Although it could be help at least one person and earn one dollar in the process that would be nice So I'm treating this as just an experiment for a science The main point is learning by doing instead of being stuck stuck in perpetual lurking Okay, I'm stopping Okay I enjoy the honesty because, you know, we can say the bullshit that we do stuff for fun and stuff.

Well, money is important part of life. Um, everyone is happy when money keep coming. That's also why money screenshots to the job. So, I'm happy that he's open about that he wants to make money.

Dan: What advice would you give him? Do you think this is a good approach to, as he says, find the audience and something they desire?

Alex: Well, I would, on his part, right, when he don't want, he don't know what he wants to do, I would focus on building friends instead. Because, you know, the best idea you have, of course, under the shower, but it's good to, it's good to talk with someone and exchange the ideas and, um, see different perspective, fresh perspective, um, and people love to complain and people love to share their pains.

That's, that's probably why. People leaves more negative opinion about products, places and stuff like this, instead of sharing something. That they enjoy so Networking talking.

Dan: How did you make your first dollar?

Alex: Like the internet.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Did you follow the same approach or tried something else?

Alex: No, the first, like, the first dollar was from, like, internet, internet. It was from Uncover, and it was after one year of doing free content on Instagram for UX designers. And I never Like, I never thought at the beginning to make money with it, like, my main goal was to I was so frustrated with my 9 5 and what's happened there.

So I just wanted to share some, some of my thoughts. And, yeah, it went further and further and further. And then, and then I started to sell e book slash playbook. And it

Dan: worked. So nothing really happened until you thought seriously, Hey, I could make money out of this. So tell us then, now that we did the updates, you did uncover. So you started with Instagram marketing and posts and, and so on. Then. You moved to Twitter X, and then what happened there? You started to do roasts?

Alex: So

this is, I believe, I hope, funny story because I joined Twitter because I wanted to explore more because Instagram works so well, so I was okay.

Why not to Try something else and Well, I joined Twitter We meet each other

We met with Nick and at that point Nick started doing roasts and I was like

Is nick there I hope not

Okay, she's enough. Okay, so

Dan: You know, this is recorded and he can listen

Alex: So I was like, okay, why not to roast him? It can be do also differently. So I started roasting

Sandra: And

Alex: we were talking in DMs about dogs and stuff like this, and at some point I was like, okay, you do UI.

I'm more like on the strategy and research side. So let's, um, cooperate. And he was like, okay. It makes sense. Let's do it. And, well, um, here we are. Not even a year

Dan: later. Do you wish that you would have skipped the whole Instagram thing and, you know, this whole process and just found Nick on Twitter, you know, two years ago or, or whenever, and did that instead or it's all a journey and it's, you know, it's part of it.

You have to go through such a journey to, to arrive at this.

Alex: Can you repeat? Sorry. Cause my internet connection broke.

Dan: It was such a good question. Unfortunately we ran out of time, so

Sandra: thank you so much.

Dan: So I said, do you think this journey was necessary or you could actually skip and, you know, go for Twitter and find Nick and make baked from the first day and that would have been better than what you did.

Alex: No, I don't think so, to be honest. Like, we know how, how the market changed, right, in the last few, few years and how companies went from 100k deals to like, okay, Sandra is smelling the wine.

It's the time.

Dan: We lost Sandra. So it's just Alex.

Alex: Um,

and it's starting to. It goes down to 60, 50, 40, and it was a time to change, to switch, to something different, to offer different stuff, to work differently, because we know how long the process takes.

Um, in normal agency software houses, uh, that are not subscription models. And I don't think because you can start building, um, your agency by the networking, right? So it's kind of like doing bigger freelancing. Um, you can go with ads, but if you don't have like personal brand. I don't think someone will trust you.

So, I believe the whole journey, um, is super important because it might seem like super simple stuff from the, from the outside when we posting, like, updates on, on Twitter or posting, like, money screenshots or we posting rows or whatever we do. But for the past It's February. Eleven months. Um, we daily do roast, uh, are active on Twitters.

We doing everything to make our clients happy. And we also have a days that we don't have energy, we don't have ideas, we don't have, like, um, time. So, like, managing everything around this, like, it was a time, like, last April, when I was working at 9 5. Had two teams under me crisis situation in my company.

I was doing uncover Instagram. It was a time when I were doing like three rows per day on X and we get get baked clients and get baked clients was get baked clients was even tougher to do than what we do currently, because it was one time payment and we did like the whole Landing page redesign, right?

So it was, uh, it was, and it is still a hard journey. But I believe every month and every step we take during this time prepared us to what we have currently. Without it And without all the stuff we did, it wouldn't be possible. Um, I have a

Sandra: very important question and a high level question. You made so much money in 48 hours, and we are all here to, um, tell us how.

But if you can do it step by step, tell us what ROSE. io is. And then you went to sleep, and you woke up, and it was crazy. Alex, like, give me spicy

Alex: details. Okay. So we, we, even if we are in two different time zones, uh, with Nick and we have like. Well, not that much time with each other, um, we, we talk a lot and, uh, we always thinking, okay, it would be great to to, to have something to also would bring money and we talking, okay, we would be.

We would have a good position to have something similar to, to job boards, um, because if we can find clients, we can also give good clients. And we were talking about this like. Two months and, uh, lately there was a client call that wanted a pitch deck for 100. So, um, Nick proposed to send a list of designers and then he changed, he, he designed

And I woke up to ready landing page, uh, and it was like, go, we go live, we go live. Okay. So we went live and the money, uh, started to keep coming. I would only like to mention that day before it, the day before it, we had a talk like, well, this was so such a tough, it's such a tough month. We had so.

many refunds because the refunds were about 22k and we learned a lot because it also for us was first month when we didn't do the whole work. Uh, we were like more handling Project management stuff and client sales calls and stuff like this and

Sandra: we did

Alex: more or less More or less design work and After this money keep started keep coming for the rose to all of course like the big impact is like Nick has a big account and people like trust him and wants to buy with him and this is Such an important thing because people can trust you.

People know that you do, you do great stuff, but not always want to buy from you. So this is also super important. And, and then I was on the call in the evening and We managed to close two deals, and I was like, also, working with one of our clients, which is actually, I don't know when he found, when he found us, but he

Dan: subscribed.

Can I ask, Alex, a deal, so that's a monthly subscription, and that's 6, 000, or what's the?

Alex: Um. So we have prop plan 6k and basic one 4k. And I was like doing the call, having fun, talking about different apps. And I managed to close the deal. So it was like 6K and then we started to ping the clients we already had on Slack.

Because always when we see the potential, we invite clients to Slack to have them there on the Slack connect and ping them on Slack instead of email to have closer. connection with them. So we managed to close one more deal and then we have such a lovely client. I don't know how he found us, but he is so funny guy.

And he is with us, like, for three months already. He wanted to And the subscription because we did for him design, we did for him development, and we did for him copywriting. And it was three different subscriptions. And he stayed for the design, and he came with a new idea Yeah. Um, about the churn, because you asked when clients leave. So we targeting the startups, so we know how it works.

Sometimes there is a work. Sometimes there isn't. Um, sometimes you do MVP and you just want to want to see how it works. You probably also know this Sandra, like there is a lot of. of work in Klu from the backend perspective, from coding perspective, but from, from the design, um, from the design part, everything works.

So you don't need support from the design. And this is also for, this is also works for our clients. They need a design. Um, we finished the part of design. We also always trying to assume what they will need in the future by knowing in what direction they're going. So we're trying to think what they do.

what design they would need in the future to give, to give them that so they can lower the cost on that in the future, which might be stupid, but from our perspective, from our business perspective, but giving them more will actually make them. Make them coming back maybe in the future or referring us to someone else, which is important.

Yeah. So this is the first thing they don't have anything more to do. The other example is they realize they need in house designer because we need to remember is

Sandra: it is,

Alex: um, it is like subscription model. So we are not in house designers. We are not working. Six days, six hours per day for them. We are doing the work, but it's a task, right? It's not like, like very detailed level of thinking about the product. We're doing our best, but we also need to think about all the clients we have.

Dan: I'll just interrupt you for a second. This ties into also a question. And by the way, if people have questions, please write them in the comments. We have a question that I'd be very interested to hear as well. How many hours do you work?

Alex: When We did only the design. I was working, I believe, six hours because dogs, training, um, lunch and stuff. To be honest, I believe around six hours. Currently, when we have a team, I spend three hours in the morning to brief the team. That is in my time zone. So I'm putting down the task, what needs to be done. I replying to the clients gathering all the information together.

Uh, so it's about three hours. I do some design work as well, and it took daily about one to two hours. Sales calls, we can say we have like weekly around. five, six calls. So it's another plus three hours per week. Then when Nick wakes up, I talk with Nick. So it's also part of the work because,

so, um, I'm think currently I have more freedom in terms of not sitting in front of my computer. Because I can go out, I can go anywhere and still working from my phone, but it's more working than before because team is asking a question, clients are asking the question, everyone is asking a question, so I need to reply.

Sandra: Do you use klu?

Alex: No.

Sandra: I built the whole platform for people not to ask other people questions.

Alex: Okay, I need, I need to send it to my team because I'm like, sometimes I reply, there is a Google on the internet.

Dan: I'm very disappointed, Alex. I'm sorry. Someone

Sandra: asked me a question. I was like, did we build the whole platform for you to ask a question?

Alex: Now, now I will be, I will reply to them. Please download the Klu. Please play, pay for Klu or I will pay for clue, whatever, just use a


Dan: I, I have a question from, from Matt. He's, uh, he's asking, how do you deal with the time difference? Is it, is it actually an advantage that Nick can kind of take over when he wakes up or is it kind of annoying sometimes that you cannot reach him?

Alex: Um, not really. Like, um, after 11 months, it's been so natural.

So I don't even care.

Sandra: Like it's, it's okay. I think it's

Alex: Even better for us, because I have strong character. And, um, I like to discuss stuff. Sometimes some people could call this argue. Nick is from Canada, so he's very peaceful and he don't want to fight. So I think it's sometimes better because We just, like, I have so much trust in Nick, and I believe, from what I see, it also works from the other side.

We respect each other's decisions, because without the trust and respecting each other's decisions, it wouldn't work. So, we have a freedom to, to do, uh, to do Whatever we like and to make a decisions, uh, we don't discuss everything with each other which might seem weird. But it works for us. It, it works.

Um, and we are pretty much simple people. We are happy when the money is keep coming. We are sad when

Sandra: we lose money.

Dan: We're laughing our ass

Sandra: off here. Well,

Dan: well, okay. Yeah, of course that's one thing, but It wasn't always like that. How, how did you know, you know, things are going to be good in the beginning?

Like, do you recommend people partner up and, you know, you need to take a leap of faith and say, okay, I trust this person. I, we, we don't really have anything going right now, or, you know, it's just starting, but we're going to embark on this big thing. How do you know that's right? Or. You just don't,

Alex: um,

Dan: Nick's not here.

So you can say whatever.

Alex: Well, I don't know. It, it just, it just worked from the very beginning. Like I have nothing more to say. It just work. I previously I partnered with one person and it didn't. Turns out, and I believe like the most important thing about our partnership is we have the same vibe in terms of working.

And we have similar speed of work. Uh, we have completely different styles of working, which is great. Uh, because it means we can work with different clients and with the clients that Nick is not comfortable with, I'm comfortable with, and with the clients I'm not comfortable with, he is comfortable with.

So yeah, um, with the previous person I, I, I partner up with, we have totally different style of work, but also different speed of work. And it builds a lot of frustration because one person feels that do a lot of stuff and the other person feels like, okay, I'm not enough. And this is not healthy.


Sandra: I fully agree with you. I have such a trouble with Dan and his time zones. One hour difference and we cannot get it together. Oh my God.

Alex: This is very problematic.

Dan: It's a huge problem,

Alex: Alex. Yeah, I know. Then you should move to United States, so Sandra will have no time to fight with you.

Sandra: I was watching, um, watches. I found some kind of watch where you have different time zones so we can be On the same time zone, or I'm not sure how it actually works. I'm not,

Alex: but yes, I agree with you.

Dan: All right.

Alex: I can say it's very comfortable when you wake up. To clients that are handled and they are not pissed Because during your sleep the other person is handling everything.

So you woke up to calm slack And this is the best feeling when you woke up to To to calm slack And also, I think to build a team at the right time is also super important. And I believe the most, like the best decision I did as well is to take the person that already worked with me in my previous company.

And we know each other for so long, so she knew my process. So, There was no need for doing any onboarding because she already knows everything. And the great part is if someone has so much stuff to do, virtual assistants are great. And it's best to have virtual assistants that you trust, because for example, the person that worked with me at my previous company, she also worked with us.

And she has access to my Slack, so she can also like handle some of the clients. So I don't need to

Dan: ask. So now you have how many, how many clients do you have in total?

Alex: Eight basic, oh my God. 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 pro.

Dan: That's insane. So you could handle this in two people? If you want it, or it's not possible anymore. Our,

Alex: our max when we were, where there was only two of us was 18 pro and around 10 basics.

And we handled this. It was

Dan: hard,

but I just imagine

people messaging me every day.

Alex: No, it's not like this. There is like very specific zones, um, with the subscription, new subscribers. And it's always two weeks of honeymoon. Honeymoon is like, we want everything, we want everything today, please work with us every day.

So you need to set up the expectation at the very beginning. You need to inform about reality, right? Um, we are fast, but calm down. Um.

Uh, there is like the clients that are, are long-term clients and don't want everything, uh, don't want, don't want something every day. So they are, they have like two tasks per week, or one task task per week. Or we have one client that have two tasks task per, per month. Um. And this is, by the way, I love this client.

He, with him is zero problem. I close him on my birthday. It was my first closed pro subscription alone on the call. He's lovely. Um, but, but we also have like the clients that are needy and they are with us. For three or four months and still need something every day. So it really depends. Um, teams helps a lot.

Finding someone for that type of the business. It's also super hard to, to find a good fit because you need to have specific set of skills to do something like this. Because people used to working with normal agency when you working with one client. So you basically send one update per per week or two updates per week.

So I know how it works. You do nothing for four days and you do everything on Friday, um, and send an update.


Sandra: been there, so,

Alex: so I know how it work and I feel super comfortable with that business model because for my whole year, I was doing like three or four, nine, five, uh, at the same time, because there was It was just boring and there was an occasion to do more money at one time, so why not? Um, and even working like with four nine fives, um, it wasn't hard to handle it.

With Nick as well, he can do a lot. So,

Sandra: so

Alex: the, the kind of like multitasking. And switching between context needs to be on the very high level. And every person that work with us currently is good at it. Um, and probably people without that skill because with every person that work with us People that work with us and don't work with us anymore is like they have context switching on the low level.

And it's nothing bad about this, but for our business model is super bad because we can't have a designer for 5k doing, working only on one project. The whole month. This is

Dan: not for. This is not for everyone to just jump in and say, I can do this. You need to have a certain work ethic or style of work, as you

Alex: said.

You need to be, you need to be comfortable that you wake up and you don't know on what you will work.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. And you need to be comfortable to work on multiple things at the same time. Yes.

Alex: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, like. We're trying our best that our designers have the same clients, but they, they kind of have, but sometimes there are the tasks that we sending, for example, to one of our designers, CJ, I love her personal, personally, um, at the, like, at the very beginning, she, on my perspective, she was on the junior level and she worked with us like for two months already.

And her progress is insane. And the amount of like, like stuff she can handle at the one time, I'm just sometimes look at this and I was like, girl, are you insane? Just slow down. We don't need to send that much.

Sandra: Like, we need just an

Alex: update. Um, so she's, she's great. And, uh, like. Um, how, how quality improved during the two months is insane.

Um, the girl like that work with us, work with me, uh, before baked, um, her progress is also insane because she was UX designer. Like I, at that moment, I will say. But UX is such a like wide topic and, um, it like, it's so much knowledge in it to, to know and to have, um, and the progress, the Freemon's progress and what she can do with apps is also insane because I know her for, for a long, long time.

And I know her, how her UI skills. look like and I know it was terrible and she know it as well and now she jumping um and went up so when there is like right person with like specific like we I believe we can call this soft skills right Because context switching is going to be so skewed. It, it needs, it, it can, magic can happen during two, two months.

But I would, I would do not recommend starting subscription model as a junior or as a person that don't have a lot of experience. Because you might deliver less. In terms of like thinking about the product and stuff like this, but you need to face off with the quality. The quality needs to be on top.

And this is very important. And I believe subscription models are only for senior designers that already have their Um, component base, the style base, um, that knows how to talk like the business language. Um, how to handle the clients in the tough situation because everyone have bad days and probably, and in the most of the time, I believe a lot of clients frustration.

Go to, go like to us because sometimes there is a time that we get like long, long message how unhappy they are and they come back after two days and saying, okay, you know, I like it.

Dan: Yeah, Alex, this is incredible. I think we could, we could keep you for two weeks and tell us what I kinda, I think we should, we should do some more of these. We're going to have to close it down now, but. There are actually multiple lessons. And what's the most interesting thing for me is that the design part, the actual, you know, deliverable is just one tiny bit of it, but there's so much more.

It's working with other people is hiring people, getting them up to speed, getting the clients to collaborate in your way of working and, you know. Aligning the expectations. There's like so much that goes into this to make it a successful business. So thank you so, so much for talking about this. I'm pretty sure you're going to be here again.

And otherwise we need to talk more anyway, because. Just because, you know, friendship and stuff,

Sandra: a lot more time zones,

Alex: let's, let's, let's do something around the time that Nick's can come as well.

Dan: I heard Nick just once and he has a beautiful voice. I completely agree. Yes. Yeah. It's very soothing. So for those, you know, Charlie, he's in Australia.

Thank you, Charlie. He's probably asleep. He said. He's probably going to fall asleep, but specifically mentioned he cannot sleep while you're talking. Not because of your voice, just because it's very interesting. So, yeah, Nick might cause some problems, it's such a soothing and

Alex: nice voice. Yeah, no, no, no, Nick is very calm.

And lovely voice.

Dan: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Thank you so much, everyone, for joining us today. Make sure to go to, subscribe for the newsletter and catch us on Spotify and Apple

Alex: Podcasts.

Dan: Don't forget about Product Hunt. We are live today. If you want to head over and support us, we would very much appreciate it if you haven't yet.

Thank you so much. Sandra, take it away.

Alex: Thank you

Sandra: guys and see you on Product Hunt. We have 12 hours more. The show must go on, I guess. But have a lovely weekend, though.

Dan: Have a lovely weekend, everybody. See you Monday. Bye. Bye.

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