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Episode 26 of Morning Maker Show: Don't touch anything, you aristocrat

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    Morning Maker Show


Join Dan and Sandra as they celebrate Women's Day and their 27th episode milestone, but not without some tech trouble. They blame Greg for pointing out their poor audio quality, leading them on a wild goose chase to upgrade their microphones. In the process, they discover that even in 2024, plug-and-play isn't always as easy as it sounds.

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Sandra: That was so beautiful said, Dan. I know, it's the microphone, it's crazy. Oh my god. You sounded very aristocratic, I have to tell you. I'm very proud

Sandra: Good morning, Dan. Good morning, everyone.

I have to tell you something. I've never been nervous about the show. Um, but I'm freaking out actually I don't want to move because if I'm scared if I move something will go down

Dan: Don't touch anything.

Dan: Okay Okay, so Karen is saying happy woman's day, by the way.

Sandra: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much Very happy day to celebrate.


Dan: so nice of him to say. Um, so

Good morning, Sandra.

Good morning, Dan. How are you? I'm really relieved that this thing works. Me too. I almost want to cry, but I'm too scared because there's the whole show in front of us. It's a very emotional moment and we're at episode 27, if you can believe it.

Sandra: Well, that's crazy.

The Audio Upgrade Saga: A Tribute to Greg

Sandra: This whole thing,

Dan: this is Greg's fault. If you don't know Greg Gilbert, my French is not too good.

He told us that our audio is not good enough. He just said, you know, I like what you're doing, but it's not good enough.

This is future Dan. And I just want to apologize to Greg actually. It's not your fault. Thank you for telling us the audio was not that good. This has motivated us and you're great. And you do great designs. Thank you.

Sandra: So yeah, we went into whole mental Um, craziness today just because of Greg.


Dan: you want to say something to Greg?

Sandra: Um, no. Actually, Greg, I'm extremely grateful for you. Um, because today we pushed ourselves, um, so much.

Dan: Thank you, Greg. This has been, uh, truly fantastic to go through so much pain today to set up. Just a microphone.

Dan: And can I just say, we're in 2024, and I thought you can just plug something in and it's going to work. Didn't you think the same?

Sandra: I thought the same. I mean, we, at some point on the show, we have discussed that even printers, you know, Have managed to work by just plugging and connecting the Bluetooth and they now magically work.

So I was extremely surprised how difficult process that was. And bear in mind, people, there was one person with us the whole day, and it's Stefan, who randomly was joining our test spaces where we were trying to figure out, um, how to make these mics work. So, Stef, thank you so much for your support. You're welcome.

Um, I hope you had fun.

Dan: I had a lot of fun He was he was just laughing at us Saying I suppose you were supposed to be professionals 27 episodes in and you cannot connect the mic.

Sandra: All right It was very

Dan: hard but but this is not our work our work This should be invisible to the wonderful people listening.

Our work is Reaching out to the golden chest of the community full of wonderful updates and picking the best ones, so you don't have to.

Sandra: That was so beautiful said, Dan. I know, it's the microphone, it's crazy. Oh my god. You sounded very aristocratic, I have to tell you. I'm very proud.

Spotlight on Community Updates: Ramesh's Website Launch

Sandra: Um, so should I start first?

Yes, please. Ramesh Aziz,

my new website is out. Repositioning my site, focusing on delivering what I do best designing plus building high performing landing pages and websites. Check it out. Ramesh. design. Hashtag building public. Dan, tell me why is this perfect tweet?

Dan: Why is it perfect? Yes. Because it has a link, of course.

Sandra: Not only the link, but he explained to us what he does. Why is he good in these things? And then there's a link. I'm so proud.

Dan: It's just a combination of things that makes it good. Right?

Sandra: Yeah. Beautiful.


Dan: he is designing, building high performing websites. I, I suppose. High performing from the marketing perspective, right?

That's how you understand it?

Sandra: High performing website. I don't know, but it's funny. There is a sport involved on the website. So maybe, no, but, um, I don't know what does it mean?

Dan: It's not performing as in the site loads fast, right? Or what do you think? Or maybe, maybe that too.

Sandra: It could be because there are some animations happening on the site.

Diving Deep into Website Performance

Sandra: Do you

ever look into performance of your

Dan: website?

Sandra: Do

Dan: you know it can impact a lot of things you do?

Sandra: Yes. Um, Charlie, I think send me, um, Oh no, that was different. Or, or Alex send me on some point and call me out badly on it. I need to work on that. Very true.

Dan: Yeah. I actually worked with a friend on, uh, On a website that had performance problems, and because of those, he also didn't get ranked very well on Google.

So, I mean, you will have user experience problems because of performance, first of all. But if it's really bad, I'm not sure what the threshold is. Google also doesn't like that. So I'm sure that's not the case for you. Uh, but if you keep adding stuff to a website for, I don't know, years, then at some point you might end up with a performance that's so low that it impacts your Google search.


Sandra: Hmm. What, what does that also include? Performance? Yeah.

Dan: Oh, it's quite complicated. There's like a tool called PageSpeed Insights. Hmm. And you basically have four major scores, if you want. And it's a mix of how fast do you show something to the user and then are things jumping around? Like, do you show something?

And then there's a huge video that loads that kind of pops in the middle. You know, what's the actual time to, to load that? So the size of your page and some of them are like, megabytes old. And then how fast is it to be interactive? Cause maybe sometimes you show the website, but it takes a few seconds until you can actually click on something.

So like, that's like the major thing. And it's quite hard to get high scores on all of those at the same time, especially when you experiment and move fast and so on.

Sandra: Yeah. Maybe I should do the test.

Dan: Yeah. Do the test, but don't, if it's above 50s, you get scores from zero to a hundred. If it's above 50. On mobile, I think that's fine.

Sandra: Good to go. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. And of course, when you start, if you, if you start, it's better to start with higher numbers if you can. So if you get like, I don't know how you start boilerplate or whatever, or if you do a website builder, it's better. They usually have good scores when you start and then you need to pay attention to images and stuff like that to not take the score down because you haven't optimized, you know, like a screenshot of your product, something like that.

Hmm. Hmm.

Sandra: Hmm.

Dan: Am I losing you with this discussion or are you? Genuinely interested.

Sandra: I just, I'm just vibing with this microphone and it's lovely to listen

to you.

Dan: Okay. Should I tell you a nice story?

Sandra: Yes. Maybe we should do Oscar stories and read me some story and for the people at the end, that would be really nice then to start.

I don't want you to fall asleep on the show.

Dan: Yeah. I have a short story.

The Starbucks Espresso Adventure

Dan: Today was the first day when I had a Starbucks coffee that sold in the supermarket. Have you ever tried that? Of course. Okay. That was my first time. And I regret it. It was 3X espresso in one, one of these cans. And it was, I was going down very fast. So I was The amount of sugar you have in yourself.

Yeah, but also I think it had proper caffeine in it, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So. What happened afterwards was that I, I crashed, essentially, I was super productive for half an hour, did a bunch of things, and then I became jittery, and I was like, okay, I need to sleep now, so too much caffeine, I can't recommend that, I don't think you're supposed to drink all of that in one go, or what?

Sandra: I mean, you see, you're not supposed to, if you're not supposed to, they would write, you're not supposed to. And of course they're not going to write that because they want you to drink that. I mean, I tend to drink a lot of that things, um, next to all the Red Bull I do. But, um, my favorite one, and I already wrote about it is Oatly one.

And then, um, there, there was this whole discussion about the cow milk and oat milk and how it's not healthy. But it tastes so good. Wait,

Dan: which one's not healthy?

The oatly one,

Sandra: like the oat milk is not good, but I know that the cow milk is also not good.

Dan: Yeah. That's what they say. Yeah.

Sandra: Yeah. So it's kind of very hard to make the right choice, I guess.

Either way, whatever you do in non controlling, um, amounts is not healthy for you.

Dan: Yeah. I drink a lot of milk because of coffee. Yeah. And I kind of feel like that, that's abusing it a bit. So, okay. Fair point.

Showcasing Community Projects and the Challenge of Website Overload

Dan: Let me do an update, enough with the stories. Difra says,

After one month of work, my second tiny project is ready to be shipped.

This time I'm trying to do better work for the landing page. And for this reason, my goal of unstyled project failed. And he has a before and after screenshot, uh, essentially changing for a very big type with a payment link to. A few sections with a little bit more step by step description of what this is.

Um, there is no link


Dan: the comments, so this one's called a one month projects and he has two projects here. Oh, so he's doing one project a month and then he's putting them on this website here.

It's actually pretty cool. I

Sandra: like the idea.

Dan: Yeah. Okay. So may be, it's a learning thing where.

You know, you have this challenge where you build a hundred designs or a hundred websites or a hundred. Okay. This cannot be a hundred cause it's one a month, so it's maybe 10. Um, but you do that and then you get better at design or at coding or, or whatever. This looks very nice. This looks really cool.


Dan: wonder if there's a login button, but I don't know.

Maybe you can even log in. Okay. Very cool.

Sandra: Yeah. I love, I love people that are sharing their projects, even if they are not fully done and I love the idea also of having a template where you can put all of your projects and then you see the progress there, or people can see the progress there as well.

But you know what's happening, Dan, with me? I have to tell you something. Honestly, I'm starting to hate websites and I know it's

Dan: all websites.

Sandra: Yes. Like, how can you hate websites? Because website is like, I don't know, like in the morning you brush your hair. That's the website for the business. It's like the first thing someone sees.

So I'm just like, I'm, I don't know anymore. I feel like. Maybe this doesn't make sense at all, but I feel like we are overdoing the websites right now that If you go back to like, I dunno, the beginning era of websites, you would see like text link and that's it. Now is like so many colors, so many things, even with Clue, I'm struggling so much every day I go to the website and I'm like, Oh, I could change this and I could change that.

And at some point there are people saying to me, I don't get anything. And I feel like if I would just write a simple text, what Klu does. And a logging button, that would be it. You know what I mean?

Dan: I know what you mean. So take a step back and cut out all the unnecessary things and just tell what it is. But you know what the problem is with that? At least for me, is the next day I get a new customer that is from a completely new target group or whatever. And they maybe have a question or my brain is not working.

Thinking, Oh, there's a new target group that I could approach somehow. And then invariably I add a little bit extra to the website, like just the small section to maybe convince people in this target group as well. And like, if you do this for a few months, then it's a mess.

Sandra: It's total mess. And yesterday I had a very important call with very big company actually in us and.

The call was about how to implement Clue into their systems and whatever. But I realized during that call that I have, even though you think that they are a perfect match for Clue, during the call, I realized how clueless I was. Nice. Yeah, because, um, we were discussing, so it's all about, The company is HR company.

They are hiring, um, people around the globe and these things. And you know, HR, this, this use case, you know, just finding, searching and putting all the data together in one place makes sense. But then when we went deeper into conversation, I've realized how much we don't actually know about use cases.


So I was, well, I was a little bit disappointed in myself but moving from there, it's like, um, even what I'm trying to say, they have, they have had, they've told me like they started the conversation and this is a big organization and they have multiple different flows and clue fits maybe in one or two flows.

And it's missing every other, you know, flow that it like at this moment can't actually like fix, you know, so, um,

trying to say that websites don't work anymore. But when digging into use cases, you really, really need to dig deeper. Like I have learned my lesson yesterday. Where you think that when you, when you just say HR or when you say, I don't know, product department or whatever is your use case, there's multiple different flows, even in that one use case that you can discover.

Dan: But how do you keep yourself from not going into too many different directions at the same time, you know? How do you stay focused?

Sandra: How do you stay focused? I mean, I said that it's almost impossible for us to say yes to every single, or to, to make it work for every single flow that they need. And then explained what we have at the moment in which we need it.

Flows we could potentially fix for them. And then from there we can move forward because like, we don't have time and people and effort to fix every single flow, but in the same time, you also have to think about the product because how much you're going to change the product if you go into that direction.

So it's very hard actually saying no is one thing that I've learned is the hardest thing. Because money, money is very nice.

Dan: Yeah, money is nice on that thought.

The Complexities of Product Development and Market Fit

Dan: Uh, the next one, do you want to take it? It is definitely about money.

Sandra: Okay. I love money.

Jonathan's Indie Hacking Journey: Features vs. Marketing

Sandra: Uh, Jonathan Wilke, uh,

Indie hacking is up and down in the last four weeks. The sales of super starter have gone down by 64 percent compared to the previous month. Consequences added more features.

Do more marketing. Let's get curves back, add more features and do more marketing. Let's just add more features. Who needs more marketing? Boring.

Dan: You would rather do the second. I take it. I, it's just a feeling I have.

Sandra: Yeah. Really? It's really hard. I don't know. Do you have that feeling? Like it's for me, like each feature, when, when we, when we are talking about the features, it's like each feature has its own flow and how it fits into the whole product.

So maybe I, I'm, I have a different idea of what feature is, but like for me, it's this big, big thing, even like, okay, now talking about glue, but even changing like in the search bar, one filter, is that considered a feature or that's. Some implementation you're going to do to the product, but even that can be extremely hard.

So it's a small feature. Yeah. But even that feature requires a flow in the product and how it works. Just do marketing. Marketing is great. But

Dan: if you do too many of those, you eventually end up with a bloated one. I think maybe, but also in, in the case of Jonathan here, he could add infinite amounts of features because he's, Building something that builds other things, if you know what I mean.

So you can always add one more type of database or one more type of payment processor, or, you know, maybe think, uh, into niches, maybe something to make directories or, and so on and so forth. So maybe feature in this case is more capturing a new target group, if you know what I mean, so it's more like we add enterprise customers for you.

Sandra: Yeah, I understand. I understand. Like if it's needed or if it's asked for in order to reach certain thing that you want to reach when it comes to, let's say, money wise, then definitely. Yeah. If it's a good deal, then yeah.

Dan: Yeah. But I do feel just to wrap this up with Jonathan, I have a comment from Matthias that I would really like you to address.

Um, he. He noticed like the downtrend and boiler plates and starters. I see this industry wide or okay. Industries may be much said, but I've, I see a downtrend in general with this. It might be that we're kind of, we're kind of seeing the limits of the reach of building in public and community and so on.

And it's hard to get outside of that. Maybe Mark Liu can because he has bigger reach, but for the rest of the people, it's a little bit harder. And a lot of these products have lifetime deals. I think Jonathan's has that maybe just check to be sure. And if you have a lifetime deal, right, you will.

eventually exhaust this pool and you need to go outside of it. So if, if adding features makes you reach another pool of people that might be interested, that I can kind of understand that.

Sandra: Oh, for sure. I'm not saying features are bad.

Dan: I think it's a lifetime deal, but I find it.

Sandra: Dan is checking if it's a lifetime deal or not, but.

Dan: I am checking it. I think it's a lifetime deal. Okay. So my TS asks. Who does the comments while you were talking? Is this some black magic stuff or are you just multitask geniuses?

Sandra: Yeah, just a little wizard. Oh my god, Dan, I'm so vibing with this mic.

I don't know how I sound,

Dan: but I love it. You sound a lot more soft and gentle, if you know what I mean.

Sandra: Oh, thank you.

Exploring Innovative Apps: From Hiking to Tech Solutions

Dan: It's very cool. Ooh, spicy. Okay, Mike.

I have hit 50 annual subscribers between my two apps. Second app is only a week or two old. I like that the steps are getting shorter, so he started in March 2023.

Dan: And by, let's say, August 2023, he was around 10, and then quickly jumped towards the end of December to 30, and now 50, and it seems to be going up. I just wonder, what, uh, what is this app?

Sandra: It seems like Mark is extremely active on Twitter, because I'm having a hard time actually finding that tweet.

Dan: March 8th, it's

Sandra: even from day to day.

The Hiking App Adventure: A Deep Dive into 'Don't Forget Spoon'

Dan: Yeah, so Mike at Coding Marine, he has two apps. So I'll send them over to you. But one of the apps is called Don't Forget Spoon. And a very good name. And the other one is called 10 Digit Grid.

Um, what is Don't Forget Spoon? I need to find out. Yeah. So it's a hiking and backpacking app.


Dan: It's getting even more brilliant. So plan, pack, adventure. Pack smarter, not harder. With Don't Forget the Spoon, our app simplifies your trip planning with personal, great copy by the way. Our app simplifies trip planning with personalized gear lists, a community gear locker, pack weight statistics, and calorie tracking.

Wow. That's a lot of stuff. And it's an app for iOS and Android. Nice work, Mike.

Sandra: This is really cool. Don't forget the spoon, you know, then what we should do. So at some point we should, um, sometimes test these apps like Mike's apps. Imagine actually, Oh, but we don't, we don't do hiking and we don't do.

Outdoors activities. But if we did imagine how interesting would be to test the app, you know, we use the app and then we go on the adventure. I'm talking too much, isn't it? It's Friday. I'm sorry. No, no,

Dan: no. It's perfect. It's perfect.

Urban vs. Wilderness: A Lighthearted Debate on Outdoor Activities

Dan: Um, are you a hiking person? Of course not. Yeah, I figured. Um, I like the concept.

I've been hiking a few times. I would like to do it more, but I actually do it quite rarely in practice. I like the hiking part. I'm not sure if I'm a fan of being in the wilderness for too long, if you know what I mean.

Sandra: Yes, yes. I fully, I fully understand you.

Dan: Like I'm too urban.

Sandra: I'm sorry, urban Dan. Um, but I don't know, like in Helsinki, there is a forest everywhere, like going over the bridge to just to get to the metro, you go through the forest. It's like a hiking thing for me. But I never intentionally decided and woke up one day. and decided to connect with the nature by hiking.

Dan: Yeah.

Sandra: I did once go to the, um, To like, how do you call that thing where you put it in the forest and then you sleep in it? A tent? Yes.

Dan: It sounds like this thing that I only saw once in my life. I don't even know how it's called exactly.

Sandra: But you know how it's like in Nordic summers, there's mosquitoes everywhere.

And it was so bad. Wait,

Dan: what Nordics are you? In Finland, during the summer. No, no, no. Get out of there.

Sandra: It's impossible. It's impossible to be here.

Dan: But why? They don't live in salty water, right?

Sandra: Not in salty water, but there are so many lakes here.

Dan: Ah, that's right. There's like 78,

Sandra: 000 of them. It's so bad. Yeah, yeah.

Dan: No, no lakes in Denmark. It's all flat land. Some swamps maybe, but it's like mosquitoes are not a thing here really. Not in the city. Oh, sorry. I'm being urban again. Yeah, yeah. Oh boy. Okay.

Discovering InlineHelp: Revolutionizing User Onboarding

Dan: Do you want to, to talk about your experience? We had this chat this morning. You've tried InlineHelp to basically get your documentation and slash knowledge base a little bit smarter.

Sandra: Yeah. InlineHelp is actually quite interesting app. I haven't. So I haven't like seen something like this. I have seen the function of what app offers. So let me explain this. Like in Clue, I had a lot of issues with, um, onboarding and then tour. And the tour was actually a problem because we use like tool tips.

And then we have cases where people didn't even click on them, didn't even figure out like that's a tool tip that they should check it out. So when I was testing inline help, um, I sign up, you kind of sign up, you put all of your documentation there, but they do something very differently. You can, with your own mouse, you can pinpoint in the app.

Let's say you are in the dashboard in clue. You can pinpoint on search bar. And then in the app in line, we'll explain to you what this is like the function of this feature. So it's not only like, you know, we've already seen the chat, um, integration with your database or documentation, but they go deeper into the product and they're not only putting the chat into the product, but also.

Pinpointing the features so the user can all actually pinpoint the feature, which I really, really liked. I think that's really, really cool. I don't know why I liked it, but it's, I find it very, very cool.

Dan: It's a new concept then, right? Cause

Sandra: it's really new concept and it's so interesting. And I feel like this guy, these guys will go big.

I don't know.

Dan: It's a little bit more like. As you say, onboarding plus, but you could still chat, right? So you still have, I mean, that's a big thing. There's a lot of people making chat apps and they're, they're pretty cool. But this is also onboarding and slash support, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Sandra: Yeah. So I was really surprised how smooth.

Like the, the, it's just different, you know, when you, when you didn't experience something like that and then you try it and then it's just different and cool and you really like it. And I actually saw it was interesting to read. Um, the founder, I am going to say the name wrongly, but Marek, Marek, Marek, um, he actually wrote, wrote, wrote a post that, um, I think it was YC company or some VC backed company are copying the features.

And I almost, I almost wrote the comment saying like, of course they're going to copy it. Like, of course they're going to do it. It's, it's, it's, yeah, it's interesting. It's a great idea. It's a great idea. I really liked it. I hope I explained it correctly and people understood me, but.

Dan: Well, I have, but I've also looked at it.

I think. The key difference is that it's not only, you know, understanding the knowledge base and answering questions, but it's, it's kind of like it understands your interface. So you can, you can point it at an element of the interface and it's going to explain it to you. And I think that that just blew my mind.

Yeah. It's a super cool way to turn it around. I don't think it's easy to build this, to be honest, like talking about copying, like with any amount of money. And I think Marek has had experience with this type of product and he managed to pull it off. It requires a lot of components too, right? Cause you need like a crawler to read the documentation to keep it updated.

You need, of course, the AI stuff is not that easy. And then you need to have potentially a huge context. I mean, you know, this from Clue, like if you have hundreds of hundreds of. Documentation page is like, it's hard to tweak this. So it works, right?

Sandra: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even when you, um, sign up to, to his app, it takes some time for them to, um, index everything, the process, everything was the same thinking it takes.

time, but you kind of get the email later on. I was waiting because I wanted to see, um, and compare it to Klu, like how long it takes us to them. But, um, yeah.

Dan: Yeah. It's a hard problem to solve. Yeah. Right. Do you want to take the next update?

You can take the next update now.

The SaaS Designer's Dilemma: Product Design vs. Marketing

Sandra: Next one. Mubin.

Sandra: I miss those days as a SaaS product designer.

Creating complex pages, endless meetings, months of work and countless revisions. I guess I'm going to start again. Beside landing page, maybe. Is he being ironic?

Dan: Well, we need Alex here because because like if we were we're not designer enough to catch if this is a joke or not But I think he's being serious to be honest

Sandra: Oh,

Dan: I think he actually I think he actually does miss it.

Um, so Mubin, he's doing, uh, landing pages for SaaS and marketing agencies. So I guess what's, if my understanding is correct, is he misses making the actual apps as opposed to the marketing side of things. Is that how you understand


Sandra: Well, I understood him that he is so happy that he's not, he's not doing any more complex pages, endless meetings, months of work and countless revisions, but, um, SaaS product designer. Yeah, there, he's definitely missing the product itself rather than, um, figuring out the marketing side of the product and building the landing pages.

But he's using Framer again.

Dan: It's super popular in the Sass. Super, super popular. But you do the design of both, right? App and landing page?

Sandra: Oh, you mean that? I meant you mean Framer. No,

Dan: no, no. You don't work for Framer, right? That would be news to her. No,


Sandra: I do, yeah, I do the design. And on the boat side.

And I can tell you also that I like the product side more. I hate design in general, but you have, if I have to choose this, it's the product because with the product, I feel like there is a little bit more thinking, like a logical thinking of the things, um, there's, you need to think about the steps and what, what, what, like the end goal, but also the beginning and how to reach and how to connect these two things.

And with the website. You have to kind of see a bigger picture and be able to, um, be able to tell a story, not about the product, but like a product story, a storytelling, sell a story. What are you achieving and all the values rather than, yeah.

Dan: Totally understand. Yeah. So you, but do you like the building that part more or is just that It's different. Do you need to think differently when you build it? You just need to think differently. Like,

Sandra: and I think it's much harder to talk about, like, to make story about the product and the values and being able to, um, make the right copy and then being able to also determine the use cases and then the right copy for that use case.

And it's just a different way of thinking. You kind of go into

Dan: totally, so are you more into doing that top level work or do you even like, you know, touching the, the more technical parts?

Sandra: Oh yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I put my own down.

Dan: Yeah. So is it no code or actually coding? Yeah.

Sandra: No coding, no coding, no coding. No, no, no.

Dan: I mean, that that's also like such a faster way to do it.

Especially like, I assume in the app side, you do have to code some stuff if you need like bigger changes at least, but on the landing page, it makes a lot of sense to go no code, doesn't it?

Sandra: Oh, for sure. Especially these days.

Dan: Yeah.

The Rise of No-Code Solutions: Building Apps with AI Assistants

Dan: But speaking about that, the, the build ship, they've launched this, uh, no code AI assistant.

Have you, have you seen this?

Sandra: Yeah, actually I did. And it is very interesting.

Dan: Yeah. So it's a super cool product. It's essentially allowing you to connect, you know, any database or tools or like API to anything. And then they have like this building block editor. Sure. So, you know, speaking about no code, you can build a landing page.

That's, you know, we've been doing that for a few years now, but with, with Buildship and this, uh, AI assistant feature, it could basically build an entire app and that's just blowing my mind. It's crazy. So from like, we talked about Mark's chat feature, right? You could build that. Just with this, without code or, you know, the popular chat, but PDF for Google sheets or data analysis, or, you know, all of those things, you can do them without one line of code, or if you want to, you could probably switch to it.

As I, as I understood, but you don't have to, how crazy is that?


Sandra: it's mind blowing. It's actually really interesting that we are living in this time and seeing all of these things.

Content Creation vs. App Development: Predicting the Future

Sandra: You know what I was, I'm going to, I'm going to tell you a funny story. You're ready for a funny story. So this whole week I've been spending with my brother.

So I'm babysitting my brother who is 12 years old. I don't know. Can you call that babysitting or teenage? Sitting whatever. It's a gray area. Yeah, it's a very gray area. But, um, I was like, well, there is a great opportunity for me to introduce him to coding because if he becomes coder and he becomes really good one, I could be Steve Jobs pretty much, you know, I could be his Steve Jobs.

Make sense?

Dan: Yeah, absolutely.

Sandra: But then we went totally into different directions and now he's, uh, putting me on TikTok. That's the future. That's what I want to say. We think it's going to be great, but maybe it's not going to be great.

Dan: What? So you're saying you are featured on his Tik Tok

Sandra: or I was hoping that he's gonna be featured or I'm gonna teach, teach him or introduce him to coding and developing and making his own stuff.

But then somehow he made me go Tik Tok. To TikTok.

Dan: Aha. Got it. Got it. Yeah. So you think the future is not a bunch of people making brilliant no code apps, but it's people creating content on these platforms and making someone else rich?

Sandra: Yes. You see, you're in my mind.

Dan: Yeah, you have a point. I mean, you can, you can make a decent amount by doing that, but don't you think it's a bit of a survival bias?

Like so few content creators actually get to that level.

Sandra: Oh, for sure. For sure. It's, it's very hard. Like, I think if you are able to find the right niche and right community, you don't have to be extremely big in the community. Comparing yourself. I don't know to the numbers that again, because I'm spending a lot of time with my brother, with Mr.

B's, um, but you can definitely find. Or have a nice living if you find the niche in the community and, um, kind of build your presence around there.

Dan: Well, I mean, you're just one Mr. Beast though, but this is, this is like a new approach though. I think Mr. Beast have kind of revolutionized this, this entire business. And actually the funny thing that reminded me of Mr. Beast and his challenges and prizes and so on, It was the LemonSqueezy Lambo, uh, thing from yesterday.

Did you see it?

So LemonSqueezy promised people to, or it didn't promise people, but they said they will release a new marketplace and there is a chance to win a Lambo as a prize. I have no idea what you have to do if it's just submitting. I think it's just submitting, to be honest, and crazy, crazy concept.

But I think this type of stuff gets you, if you, if you can pull it off, right. If you have the money for Lambo, you can actually get so much exposure and media and so on. And I think that reminded me of Mr. Beast somehow.

We went completely over time and I think. It's time to close it down. There was one more thing that I wanted to mention. There was a discussion regarding partnering up or not. It's a very interesting ongoing discussion. And I think, uh, Danny Postma, if I'm saying that correctly, he said, you know, you shouldn't partner.

And then Matthias, a friend of the show, he actually. posted a scientific approach if you need a co founder or not. Super interesting thread. I think he spent a lot of time, uh, figuring that out. I'll link it in the comments. We don't have time to, to talk about that anymore. Um, but maybe for next time for now, I would like to thank you everyone for joining the show and I hope you will have a great weekend.

If you want to listen to past episodes, You can find them on There you have, all the transcripts and please take a look and don't forget to sign up for our newsletter as well.

Technical Difficulties and Community Engagement: Behind the Scenes

Dan: Okay, I think we're past the technical difficulties. No one is complaining that it's bad in the comments In fact, someone said that it's good.

Sandra: Today we are joining with our little microphones and we are extremely proud of this innovation. It took us whole day to set up.

Um, we even went a step further and decided to record this, um, also video episode so we can push, uh, maybe to YouTube or somewhere. Technology,

Dan: technology. I'm waiting for, so Matt says the audio quality is so much better. Oh my god, this is so nice to hear. We spent literally half the day trying to set this up and I think we've mostly failed, to be honest.

Sandra: Yeah, I, I, I still have no idea how this works. Why can I hear you and see you in the same time?

Um, but let's hope for the best We are still learning.

Dan: We're in the learning process. I have like a really cool nugget for you. So I'm too afraid that if I i'm joined with my account and then with morning maker show and i'm too afraid that if I close the phone Then the space is gonna end or something And I just realized that you cannot completely mute the phone.

So the phone is under my foot and I hope you can't hear me twice because it's like on the floor, uh, making like a little sound of what we say.

Oh, you think that was all the trouble we had this episode? Well, let feature Dan tell you there was a lot more trouble. Listen to this.

Sandra: I would love to take a next update, but you have to, um, join the meeting link.

Dan: Sandra, can you explain how does this, uh, How does this Google meet work? Like we had a very funny episode this morning.

Sandra: So, um, when we are doing the morning maker show, Dan usually starts, um, Google meet. And then, um, then he shares his own screen where I can read the updates. Um, and then, and then we try to find people.

Um, and make sure that all of them are mentioned, mentioned under the post as well. So Google meet after 30 minutes or an hour. We have been talking for an hour, a little bit, um, ends the call and in the past two days, um, Google meet decided to end the call in such a wrong time. This morning we had, uh, Google meet, Google meet as a meet, you know, you go to butcher and you buy us some meat.

Dan: Google meet. Okay.


Sandra: um, in the past two days, um, they cut our calls in such a wrong moment. This morning we had one call and I was like about to say it's ending. It's ending and it ended in such a wrong way where people were still talking. So, yeah.

Dan: And the funny thing is we tried to prevent it. It was like also this morning, but also yesterday we had a community call with all the morning maker show makers.

And there was like a heated discussion and like you said three minutes before that, I'm sorry, it's going to end. And then the discussion like got even more heated and then just cut off at the worst possible. So, yeah.

Sandra: It's funny.

Dan: And we will see you Monday. I hope you have a lovely weekend.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

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